# Pinegrow Offspring -- Pine Seedling -- Designer App Coming? **URL:** \ **Category:** General\ **Created:** [October 15, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://forum.pinegrow.com/t/pinegrow-offspring-pine-seedling-designer-app-coming/2306 "2018-10-15T16:29:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 51
**Author:** ![Pinegrow\_User](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.pinegrow.com/pinegrow_user/32/4919_2.png) [@Pinegrow\_User](https://forum.pinegrow.com/u/Pinegrow_User)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://forum.pinegrow.com/t/pinegrow-offspring-pine-seedling-designer-app-coming/2306/51 "2018-11-03T20:10:34Z")
@matjaz, ok brace yourself once more, here goes. :—) > [@matjaz](#): > > > **Regarding Bootstrap:** > > > > There is nothing in PGS that would tie it down to one particular framework. That said, even when working with plain HTML sites, in most real-life cases, we need stuff like Normalize css, responsive breakpoints, mixins for media queries etc. So instead of reinventing this, the current thinking is to just take these boilerplate stuff from Bootstrap. (Bootstrap is very modular, you can pick and choose what parts you use). > > > > On top of that, **most websites need** components like Navbar, slider, Rows & columns, maybe Cards. Again, it makes sense to take these out of Bootstrap, rather to invent our own. This level will probably be optional, so you’ll be able to start a project without these components. > > > > What are your **thoughts about this approach?** As I don’t fully yet understand the concept of this coming app, or what it may offer regarding features and workflow, its then hard to really say and I will need to generalize. But I would push and suggest towards a more vanilla HTML5 semantic approach even when gleaning from Bootstrap, coupled with general Flexbox, CSS Grid, etc. So while Bootstrap does easily offer layout, content, components, utilities, mixins, extends, responsiveness, etc., its all just seen as vanilla from most designers points of view. So the ability for lots of creative styling and user adaptations need to occur past this foundation in their minds right from the beginning regardless of components used. Even though the majority of things occur in this underlying component scaffolding, in designers minds its only after this stage where most of them begin their thinking. They want to just freely and creatively build and “style” things based upon their design criteria’s and imaginations. So lets run through some of it … In doing so they want to easily be able to style the Navbar allowing for any configuration (Mega menus included) and then re-style as they need across breakpoints and mobile. Along with all the other page content items such as Cards, Tabs, Accordions, Forms, Carousels, Sliders, Lightboxes, Filterable and Sortable Portfolios, Scroll Effects, Element Animations and Transitions (CSS/JS), etc. With easy access to Text, Fonts, Icon Sets, responsive Media format inclusions, Images, SVG, Video, Audio, Lazy Loading, Media Players. Then come the input Forms, Logins, Newsletter signups, etc., which they expect to be working with associated backend files upon export. Along with easy opportunities to connect to and use various required 3rd party integrations and services from across the web. With all the needed access to entry points for doing so along with adding other CSS and JS Plugins and Libraries, with needed wrappers, data-attributes, etc. Then comes needing to include and offer various Analytics, Location Maps, Site Search, XML Site Maps, CMS solutions, Blogs, E-Commerce, full Social Media integrations, SEO, Local Schema, Localization, WCAG Accessibility, GDPR, Favicon and Touch Icons, etc. While easily being able to upload their finished creations via built in FTP. With the ability to easily share live remote design reviews with clients during the design process. Basically most features which they encounter across the web themselves **is where their expectations begin** and I am sure I easily forgot some others which they likewise expect. ;—) Those are some of the things I was referring towards above (in the last bullet point seen again below). So as stated the entry list when designing for the modern web, even at a basic level is vast even for designers. > [@Pinegrow\_User](#): > > > Regarding designers and apps, in the end it appears to always be about: > > > > - **minimal** interaction with the underlying source structures > > - **simplistic** > > - **intuitive** > > - Ultimately what limitations remain that will hold designers back from leveraging their design skills to **produce sites with the various modern requirements and integrations** > > > > The last one is usually the biggest challenge for web development regarding designer focused tools, as it’s a perpetual list of features, services, integrations, connectivity and so on. There will aways be additional requests and perceived requirements of missing features. But even the baseline level list of feature needs on “todays web” is quite far reaching and diverse even for visual apps. But if you are speaking of a more semantic approach when using Bootstrap [such as this example article](https://coderwall.com/p/wixovg/bootstrap-without-all-the-debt) and avoiding the general “[divitis](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/divitis)” which Bootstrap tends to bring. Then yes it would be much better than a purely Bootstrap approach, if that is what you are saying and planning? Regardless much more needs to occur above any base framework concerning workflow. As I tried to summarize above and which is demonstrated by the mentioned online competition - they and their users have proven most of that and they are working towards even more. Which is not to say it all could not be done and likewise provided in a “Pinegrow desktop app for Web Designers”. Certainly it can, [much of the core is already in place with Pinegrow](https://forum.pinegrow.com/t/pinegrow-offspring-pine-seedling-designer-app-coming/2306/31) as was previously mentioned and you certainly know. :–) In the end, from what I have witnessed designers want to quickly begin above this draft vanilla scaffolding. They simply want to begin designing, styling, creating and deploying – **albeit with a vast needed feature criteria** to work with & build upon with their design skills. From the few pine needles you have supplied throughout this thread as descriptions of this new Pinegrow designer centric product, perhaps thats the direction you are headed? 🌲 ♥ **PS:** How about the team finally also provides the [Pinegrow API Documentation](https://forum.pinegrow.com/t/developing-plugins-pinegrow-reference/965/6) to the public. So others can likewise extend this new Designer product in ways if that would be possible. But at least it would offer a more easy and transparent opportunity for people to extend Pinegrow, much more than has been done to this point. > [@matjaz](#): > > Let’s see where this discussion goes next Your turn. 😉 --- _[View the full topic](https://forum.pinegrow.com/t/pinegrow-offspring-pine-seedling-designer-app-coming/2306)._