Thanks! (with 20 characters).
COMING VERY SOON: Use Block Smart action to turn any HTML element into a WordPress Block (aka Gutenberg)
have I missed it?
I cant find the one time purchase option
Oh well, some more notice would be nice on something like this.
This ship as sailed. Extremely quick response from Elliot on ACF team… the one time pricing model as gone.
SO, as will @Marf, this will never ever happen for me, for much the same reasons.
So that means the new blocks in PG, wont be of much interest either, unless they do something nice with the NON pro version, if I ever get around to using those.
Personally< I never found a way to create a single wp theme with PG as, non of the tutorials worked the same in the real world, and I didnt know enough about WP ,to figure it out.
I was hoping to use PG to enable me to learn WP.
So this ACF… no thanks.
Well, I understand that ACF with its new pricing model will be less attractive to most people now than it was in the past (I have a one time purchase developer licence myself so I am not affected by this) But frankly, the one time pricing model was a steal. ACF is the single most powerful post meta fields plugin around (there are others that do similar things but none fly as high as ACF does due to support, comprehensive documentation and ecosystem). Now, it is indeed much more expensive but, if you start examining the actual price, it still is quite reasonable. Pinegrow pro + WP (assuming you take the subscription version) costs you 140 euro’s each year, which translates to roughly 12 euro’s each month. Combine that with ACF pro with the new pricing version (which puts your WordPress install on steroids) which will cost you roughly 20 euro’s each month at the agency tier. Together that comes down to 32 euro’s per month. Compare that to one of Pinegrow’s closest competitors, webflow, which has a pricing model of 35 dollars per month (32.33 euro’s) this is extremely close and, as such also market conform. You can go for the 16 dollar version but the restriction of having only 10 projects is frankly laughable. So a freelance developer would always have to go with the 35 dollar version if they are being serious. Webflow has a CMS that seems pretty powerful, though I would argue that because you have such a broad WordPress and ACF ecosystem (and the fact that you get all the features Webflow has, including interactions which were recently added + code access which Webflow somewhat lacks) the pinegrow + ACF combo is more powerful at roughly the same cost. I will concede though that the developer working with the Pinegrow + ACF combo needs to be a little more tech savy to make it work right (which is the case for me and why I prefer this solution) and that Pinegrow’s docs and tutorials can sometimes lag somewhat behind its current version number (which is probably due to the small size of the team). So you’ll need to fiddle more with it yourself than you would with Webflow who have very extensive docs. Pinegrow and Webflow both occupy a similar space in the web Editor market as both are positioned in between page builders and plain code editors. Though similar, the target audience isn’t entirely the same. Webflow is for instance closer to muse and elementor while pinegrow is closer to atom and visual studio code with a lot of overlap in between. As for learning wordpress with Pinegrow. Personally I’m finding this is slowly starting to happen. I have had Pinegrow for a little over two years now I think and I have experimented with it mainly in a volunteer work context which enabled me to traverse its (admitedly) steep(er) learning curve. Now I feel confident enough to soon start freelancing with it. I’m actually sad (and a bit surprised) to hear that you never really managed to fully adopt it as I have seen you around the forums being very active. So I had the impression you were a master at this.
but not relevant.
And I’m competent at what I do, and will say when I cant do something.
Ie, Wordpress and PG combo.
SO this is not even remotely relevant, and its priced in such a manner that I have no interest in exploring it.
All your maths make no sense to anyone what so ever, who just wants to slowly take their time exploring and learning.
Some of us have other lives to balance too.
It takes longer to learn as a hobbyist,
your subscription expires,
Your trying it on a couple of your pet websites to see what its like,
You need the triple price version… just no no no.
And for similar reasons, I wont be renewing my Animator, Green sock thing.
and Nope! sorry to disappoint you.
Pinegrow has now developed way beyond my pay scale., which is one of the reasons Im less active on here and you will mostly find me in the Beginners section.
I have no trumpet to blow, I help where I can, and thats all. Since PG has moved on so much, I can help less, in the advanced topics, so I am just quiet and see what the gurus say.
Wordpress dev, never happed with PG for me.I tried, I followed tutorial, they failed, I gave up.
I had other things to do.
You know, other lives, horses, broken computers. Just read my stuff.
Anyway carry on , I hope it makes a big change for some, for the like of me, it is another thing to not use. and is dependant again on another paid, annual subscription model, like the greenshock one (how much?)
So by by to all paid monthly things for me.
I might have considered the one off purchase of the ACF, with the possibility of it bump starting my PG +WP Dev stuff, but at this price? Forget it.
Such is life
I honestly can’t believe I’m gonna post after 15 months, but saw this and figured why not.
Less than 24 hour notice by Pinegrow only via Twitter, Facebook and the forum. But no actual announcement or courtesy by way of direct email to those whom are actually paying customers of the Wordpress version of Pinegrow or Theme Converter that will require ACF Pro for this feature?
I know I’ve said this before but you guys are not the best at product/feature launches or marketing. This certainly didn’t come off as a ‘caring presence’ effort for WP users to give opportunity for the ACF Pro deal before their pricing changed. If the new Block action was in development and was known to be released ‘very soon’, then it seems extremely odd that you guys would wait to announce 24 hours before the required ACF Pro pricing was changed and not let WP related customers know more directly in advance. Especially if this was your decision on how you would be moving forward with Gutenberg Blocks.
Not a very transparent effort, in contrast to what 2020 was supposedly promised by @matjaz .
The linked blog post above about pricing change for ACF Pro was only updated to include (9:00 am AEST) late today on February 23rd 2020. Probably only after @schpengle and everyone else in the western hemisphere contacted them late today and they realized they better clarify the time difference issue across timezones. Which is too little too late for most of us seeing this now. I’ve seen many reports of ACF Pro not honoring the time difference. So I guess instead of listening to the Pinegrow developers, users should of taken heed to @Roel back in August of 2019.
But that certainly begs the question how long was this actually being worked on by Pinegrow and why wait until the last 24 hours to let Pinegrow WP users know so indirectly when its then too late before the required ACF Pro price change? Sadly this seems somewhat indicative of the status quo “caring presence” and definitly not an example of being more transparent and open in 2020.
Hope everyone is doing well otherwise, its been a minute (657001 or so).
Welcome home @Pinegrow_User…yes, 657001…ahhhh, how I’ve relished them
as will the Devs when they wake up.
Yes, the timing is a little unfortunate (like makes this probably awesome add-on, for pro devs who HAVE ACF Pro, a great thing to have but…) for the likes of me, it makes the new feature, kind of a mute point, or redundant.
Which is a pity.
I’m not sure what it would be capable of with the NON pro ACF version?
Or… if our PG Devs, could strike a last minute deal with the ACF guys , for an extension for the lifetime deal for some of the PG users who would wish to commit to it?
I get the ACF devs point about their pricing and user base and returns etc, but there you go, I aint running with the big dogs, so for the likes of me.
I should think that for others, like @dcneuts and countless others (who probably already have the lifetime ACF deal) , this will probably be the Bomb! and they will be thrilled,
But I just see it as an additional monthly , subscription event… for something I can not justify.
But hey ho, let’s see how it goes.
And I guess the PG devs would have been on this for quite some time.
So, they be equally mortified at the price change timing… as its sort of business suicide to put in a lot of effort to develop something for an ecosystem, that then gets priced out of range of your anticipated clientele.
Oooh, lets have a heated debate… tomorrow.
Bed now, nearly 5am, Ive been having a bit of time of it!
And not sleeping so well due to it all.
Chiming in here, thanks for pinging me @schpengle!
ACF Pro is important to me and my small agency, as we use it consistently for complex projects. It’s important in the grand scheme of things for WordPress to not only build custom back-ends for users to control and edit their content, but we can use it to setup fields that can be used in dynamic templates that are for e-commerce or just plain complicated. You can get away with simple setups using the free version, there’s nothing wrong with that, but then again I’m not doing this at a hobby level. And we’re still learning Pinegrow, and I say “we” as I have more than 1 license. We’re learning to use environmental variables to pass projects back and forth so we can push/pull code from the Git repo.
I can honestly see those with the WordPress version of PG moving more towards professional users. For us, PG is a great tool to control source code and maintain project integrity. It also helps to preview what we’re building in an IDE while watching the output on another monitor. WordPress for us is a starting point for a project, an application development platform, not a blogging tool. We’re doing some really cool things with it, but not with templates or visual builders. Just clean code, that’s the only way to really go for corporate clients needing customized solutions. And we partner with other agencies, so they also expect us to use nothing but code, so our processes are in alignment with industry standards so we can maintain workflow and develoment compatibility. Pinegrow with WP helps us to do that.
Since you pinged me, I wanted to provide you with some feedback and what this means to us… no one likes price hikes, but for us we need the right tools at the right time to get the job done. It’s part of doing business as an agency, as I’m no longer just an individual freelancer, so that’s changed the rules of the game for me.
I’d be happy to entertain discussion or questions on this. And @schpengle feel free to go direct with me, also.
Hey @schpengle off course you have your own situation going on and I understand that. Momentarily I’m a little privileged on the money front and perhaps I spoke too carefree because of it. I was speaking in general terms, trying to put some things into perspective by referencing their competitors. Trying to help others who may be dealing with this dilemma as well. But if I came across as patronising I sincerely apologise, that was not my intention.
As for how long they’ve worked on this. I think it can’t be more than two weeks. I posted my workflow on making blocks 17 days ago of which the team informed me (in the form of a reply on my comment on Facebook) that it was apparently my writeup that served as an inspiration for the new block action (as there was previously no way to register a block in pinegrow and had to be done manually in the functions.php) Now this can be done entirely without leaving Pinegrow. As the docs regarding the block action are about 90% the workflow I posted, I think it is highly plausible to assume that it hasn’t taken them longer than two weeks as most of the code to make this work is already part of Pinegrow and needed just the registration part to work more smoothly. Also, about the short notice I really believe they were caught by surprise as well. Which is probably why they announced this feature before it was officially released in order to give everyone one last chance to purchase a one time licence. ACF announced their revised pricing in November if I recall correctly but remained relatively quiet about it at the start of the year, even though it was announced for the start of 2020. Only a few days ago they announced it would be time to finally change, something the pinegrow dev team may not have noticed until it was (almost) too late. I agree, it is unfortunate and it is true that in the marketing department Pinegrow could still grow significantly but I do believe this was something they could barely control.
Yes, cheers both, to @Roel and @dcneuts, thanks for the replies, Yes, that is right along the avenues I was thinking on both inputs - apart from the pure code work that you have to do for corporate clients - I was intrigued by the use of PG for version control and Git etc.
-That has moved on a bit since the last postings in the whole Work Flow topic we had on here a while ago. (I might just search for that and link it in an edit now)
Edit, here we go , this
What is your workflow?
Yes, I could see it being really useful to @dcneuts, but after seeing how he actually uses PG, Im not so sure as it appears quite a bit of the work is bare metal coding. oh!
You, know, this makes me want to ask just HOW PG is implemented in that work flow, but you know, tbh, I have hardly used PG much as of late, (not that Im not using other tools, just life as changed so much over here for me that I am not really doing any web stuff atm - god knows I NEED to do a site or too atm, … for information and my own protection (and of my horses) right now due to a horror story situation I am stuck in… and my housing and and… oh god! my life!)
But… I would be actually taking up other peoples time, creating a response, about a topic I am interested in, but… have no time to study and carry out, or indeed, the abilities to implement in PG or outside… due to my lack of knowledge in both WP and the more recent, advanced PG features.
I have quite simply… dropped of the knowledge cliff and been left behind.
So it is for this reason that this funky new blocks feature… for the likes of me (not you guys ) is a damp squib
So, not dissing it! however just providing feedback, that due to this most unfortunate timing, and infinite price hike (Large number * Eternity = Financial Misery) kills it dead in the water, UNLESS your a pro and it saves you so much time/ increased capabilities markedly.
But for the likes of me, a non starter, that I will never be implementing in the current scenario and now all potential to leave a way out for the future are quashed.
Its like buying online courses, on vastly reduced sale prices - in the hope that I will actually use them, finish them and LEARN some new skill - with competence.
This hasn’t gone well, so far, but I STILL HAVE THEM and the hope.
I MIGHT have gone for 100 AU dollars, to check it out and keep it in my repository for the future. SO I get the ACF points about thier massive user base/value provided/low returning revenue from these users/but awesome word of mouth advertising for new users.
And I see their point on subscription model.
But I was interested in PG because I OWNED the software, and NO subscription model.
But to each their own and for some this is the way, so PG offers both Props!
However, for myself (and maybe the likes of me… if other such creatures exist) then this dependance on a paid, subscription model 3rd party tool -which I can neither afford/justify/actually honestly put in the time to study and implement effectively…gah! you get it.
Much the same as the Greensock/ Animator thing.
A subscription model , to use PG, with a free Greensock Library.
I don’t get it. and neither do some others that contacted me, who were also trying to work this model out. (because, as noted, Ive been around for a while)
I’ve already fallen off the edge of the knowledge/capability feed trough, I am just hoping that for me, this isn’t the start of a trend to implement new 3rd party PAID/Subscription model plugins/addons/party hats, that push standard dev further away from me.
HOWEVER! PG… as it stands WITHOUT these things… STILL has enough capability to tax my knowledge and push my abilities to learn more! It’s great for that.
BUt, this timing sucks.
THE ACF would have got 100 dollars out of me, which would have bought quite a few coffees, and seriously would not have been ripped off by my productiveness with it!
now they get nothing
But maybe a much better future, so good for them!
Bad for me.
Due to this belated news release on here (my Mac is dying and I wasn’t online for a few days)
I and the likes of myself (Hello Singular doppelgänger, how’s tricks? )
Are the losers, and for us, this is
Defeat, snatched from the jaws of Victory!
Oh yes, sorry @Roel there, cheers for the clarification of your point of view (I have new stopped chewing the edge of my table ) and as you say, the timing is pretty well implemented! It just really does appear to be bad timing, too short notice etc.
Oh well, I might just drop Elliot another line… we shall see
Edit number 2
I have just dropped Elliot a line (over at ACF team) to see if they could consider some sort of extension/deal for us PG users who have just had both the New feature AND… the prohibitive future pricing model news - at the same time
Either way, I hope that there will be some good tutorials… along with ones to show how to best use whatever capabilities the FREE ACF fields etc is capable off.
I was on time and able to make the purchase, for the ACF Pro “one time offer”, but decided not to buy it!
For me WordPress is not for my business or to offer as a service to my clients, not now and not in the future. It was and is only for me to play and experiment to see what WP is and how it works, to experience why everybody is using it and is so excited about it. And maybe to build a few simple personal project with it, build and maintained only by me.
That’s the reason for me, why it’s on my list to dive into WP one day. More out curiosity than a new business opportunity! For me WordPress is not something I would make money with, pay my bills or going to offer to my clients.
I have just not the time to learn all the “ins and outs” and master WordPress completly and bring it to a level to know everything/enough about it. That will probably take too long even for me as an experienced webdeveloper/webdesigner. (My time is valuable, and I can do only one thing at a time).
And besides that, if I want to go use WP commercially and want to offer it as a service, I also need to feel confident and experienced enough to start and build “commercial” project for my clients. Going that direction, will also mean I need to give support on it. And with ALL the responsability and expectations I put myself into to my clients. And to keep them (always) satisfied and happy, and knowing that they will come with WP questions and request which I maybe can not deliver directly and takes me a whole lot of time to figure out to make it happen and implement for them in WP. That’s not a situation I want to put myself into!
I don’t mind to challenge myself and looking for inventive solutions. (I do that already almost every day, that’s inherent to the webdevelopment business). But learning and maintaining a whole new platform and eco-system, which WordPress is, is not something you “just” do. Next to all other things that need to be done. It has consequences, and It would probably be very time consuming.
Every hour or day I spend on WP, is one hour or day less I could spent on other things, the things that need to pay my bills. Already keep myself busy enough with all kinds of things!
For the ones that do business with WP, I totally understand and see why ACF Pro is needed and important (and even essential) for them. And is a real time-saver that’s worth every penny, to provide them with a tool that’s very powerful and flexible where the sky is the limit.
About pricing and costs, it was also not questionable if it’s worth the 60 euro’s for ACF Pro (developer license). If you need it (or even rely on it), it’s a bargain. But I was wondering if it was worth it to me. That ended up, after some quick research, being no.
So for now I decided not to invest in it and purchase ACF Pro. Because I didn’t buy it now, would not mean that I never going to do something with WP. I still always can, and also can use the free ACF version if I want to use some of those features. Maybe I explore WP one day, time will tell…
Webdevelopment and webdesign is constantly evolving, with new standards, techniques, technologies and posibilities. It’s already really difficult and impossible to keep up with everything that is going on.
Every day there is something new on the horizon, even when I get 48 hours in a day it’s not possible to track everything. Always need to make choices what to keep up with and which new things I want to learn to extend my knowledge. There are just too much things interesting I like to learn and know, but imposssible to master them all!
And I also think it’s better to know 10 things very good, than a little bit of 50 and only scratched the surface of them! More is not always better, quality above quantity. (Note: The mentioned number 10 is figurative, to make a point. its not the actual number of skills I have. Not easy to count them all… )
what he said, him there, the duck! (@Marf)
…except for the bit where he COULD Have bought the lifetime licence
I couldn’t find that option.
It’s not available anymore. Yesterday was the last day it was offered. From today they have new price plans! I could have bought it yesterday, which I eventually not did (for mentioned reasons above).
Well I went to buy it yesterday… but couldn’t find the option!
Just the 3 tier versions, NONE of which were relevant to myself (for much the same reasons, NAY! ALL Of the same reasons you stated )
It must have been that weird time zone thing (Australia etc) My yesterday was their Tomorrow I guess.
… I hope to have some better tomorrows
Sorry to hear that you were too late, they are indeed in a different “earlier” timezone (Australia).
But to be honest, I think you must be glad you didn’t burned money on it, and making a maybe impulsive buy. You already have your hands full and already struggling with basic HTML and CSS.
Which can be already a big challenge for you…
So I really wonder, if you were able to use and figure out how to setup and work with WP.
(I hope you feel not offended, it’s just a realistic and honest view I think).
Informing you on Facebook does not really inform other “Pinegrow Wordpress” users however and certainly does not coincide with the promise of openness in 2020 by @matjaz.
If they informed you a few weeks ago and knew they were choosing to lock their products into ACF PRO for Gutenberg Blocks. Then when “Advanced Custom Fields” announced on February 16th that February 24 would be the actual date of the pricing change and they subsequently updated the blog post with that actual date (absent of ACF stating the time of expiration which was added to the blog late on the 23rd to accomodate the timezone debacle). Then the PInegrow team had a clear opportunity to make this announcement directly to “Pinegrow Wordpress” users an entire week earlier and not less then 24 hours before the pricing change for the mandatory ACF based upon their workflow decision in their products for Gutenberg Blocks.
I find that extremely hard to ascertain if they were hinging their products directy upon ACF for this feature. Other people whom use ACF in their products were making users aware of it directly after the February 16th announcement that February 24 would be the date of the pricing switch. I don’t think @Emmanuel is that oblivious to the WP community and would not have known until less than 24hrs.
Its merely a matter of principle and courtesy to the “Pinegrow Wordpress” users. Sadly they again fell short on this opportunity of informing users properly regarding a feature they were already aware of.
@Pinegrow_User They didn’t inform me weeks ago. They informed me around two days ago when they first notified everyone because I commented on their Facebook announcement. I was as oblivious of this new feature as you were until that time. But as I said before, I agree that the timing could have been handled better (even though I really think they did what they could in a difficult situation). Stating that they decided to lock in their gutenberg development to ACF is perhaps a little premature though. Maybe they simply did it because it was relatively easy to implement and other gutenberg implementations may follow in a little while (just speculating here) just as post meta fields are not locked into ACF in pinegrow either. It’s merely an option that is also supported.
I’m not sure that Matjaz will be able to intervene before Wednesday, so to confirm that we read your feedback carefully, I give you here my own point of view about this situation.
Sometimes the timing just isn’t right. We have been offering features related to the free version of ACF for a long time but for the first integration of a feature intrinsically linked to the paid PRO version, we have been unlucky.
The final decision to implement this functionality was taken very recently (February 17th) and with our nose in the handlebars, we hadn’t anticipated this change in pricing for ACF Pro.
The time needed for the corrections and additions normally planned for the next version + the integration time for this new feature in particular (which we weren’t sure to integrate in the next version) + the testing time and here’s where we are today.
When last Saturday we found out that a price change for ACF Pro was going to take place on February 24th, as our functionality was still not available, we did our best to communicate and inform about the situation.
Everyone will be able to judge according to their own criteria as to the quality of this communication operation and its appropriateness in view of the comments posted from here.
One thing is sure, this emergency communication was not planned, it was carried out with the means available at the time, i.e. social networks and the forum, and we are sincerely sorry for those who did not have the opportunity to read our mention on the change in price and model of ACF Pro.
OH well! Nice try, keep up the good work.
2nd Place = 1st Loser
In this case, us without the ACF pro or means thereof to own it UNLESS professional or wealthy, so just asking, if and when Us non pro people get to tinker with the ACF things in PG, can we TURN OFF, all the advanced options in the views?
As seeing stuff like that with Reminders to upgrade now, in order to …blah blah
…will drive me nuts and remind me of this unfortunate timing debacle, every time I see boxes I can do nothing with!
ah well, you snooze, you loose.
I don’t have much to add to Emmanuel’s post.
The story is quite simple:
We got an idea for implementing a useful and powerful feature and then implemented it in record time of just few days. Meanwhile we noticed the planned ACF price increase. Our target was to release the new version on last Thursday, but couldn’t do it because we were still fixing bugs. Over the weekend we realised it would be good to let people know about the upcoming feature, so that they can take advantage of getting ACF. We used our social channels to do that.
Looking back, it would have been better to email users on Friday. Do and learn…
I think that professional use-cases PG and ACF PRO combo, create much more value than what they cost, even with new ACF pricing.
That said, we aren’t fans of this situation and understand that it puts the block feature out of reach of many users.
Still, using ACF lets us have this feature at all.
But we’re not married to ACF. If we find another approach that lets us support blocks and its implementation & support is feasible with our resources, we can do that.