FACEBOOK GROUP!! - non ufficiale
I was thinking, why not utilize facebook and create PG community (non-official) group there, It might help address issues fast, topics, share some works, portfolios, talk about technologies, trends …plus help make this software more noticeable…more resources, funnel more people to try this app… What do you think? . Clearly won’t be an official support team or whatever, just a “fans” group.
FACEBOOK GROUP!! - non ufficiale
Pinegrow Offspring -- Pine Seedling -- Designer App Coming?
Seems a bit pointless and not needed. There’s a forum and you can email support. No need for any thing else imho.
When I see the traction other page builders have gotten using FB, I’m all for it. More users mean the developers can give us better updates, more users mean more tutorials, more code snippets, MORE! I’m joining.
Most of what you are talking about is in Slack. There is far more user interaction going on there than on the forum. Have you used the Pinegrow Slack Channel?
RobM has a point about user interaction but make it known that the facebook group is not official support and is only user to user. Direct them to the Slack channel and to this Forum for official support.
I think already between Slack and the Forum there is a fragmentation of shared user information unless users get involved in each. This would add further to that, but again be another choice to users if desired.
As far as social and community involvement, marketing and spreading the word about Pinegrow.
Those are all things I wish the actual Pinegrow developers would engage more in. I would be nice to see far greater interaction, involvement, activity by the developers in general. Likewise it would be great to see far more user involvement and activity on the forum, slack and talking about and spreading the word about Pinegrow across the web.
Everything comes across as pretty sparse and very quite compared to other various apps. Even the lack of potential users and the web community in general discussing Pinegrow across the internet is largely absent. The app still seems to remain hidden from peoples consciousness largely. Perhaps those who came across it at earlier versions (v1/v2) were turned off and never came back to see its progress. The web community in general still is largely unaware of its presence and capabilities.
Anyway good luck to your efforts in trying to assist with those awareness things which seem sorely lacking.
That is what i thought… adding another channel to the skinny interactions on this app maybe is not the best…but… Slack is a closed environment and I see it more like an old style chat app closed to itself. Not to say this forum here… feels almost as if developers want to keep it very intimate. (pardon if i am wrong) First time when I heard about pinegrow I went to see on fb if there was a community or something… desolè, just the app page… so downloaded and tried the app, I liked it and so bought it. But then I felt like a man on the moon…cold and lonely (not talking about official support here)… missing fervent community group, like in the one i was used to be in (Webflow, Muse,DW, VS code…) anyway… I think you know what i mean. Thanks
I went to visit the facebook group but it is a closed group. You need to make it public so people can read it without joining otherwise it is just another Slack with less participants.
Ironic. The PG “Unofficial” FB page is not so public after all.
You gotta be a member. The inviting, “open door” atmosphere is therefore entirely lost.
Also, at least here, we might find legitimate owners/users of Pinegrow, whereas elsewhere…maybe not.
How much information does anyone expect to post (or read?) on FB’s limited posting space? It sounds like you just want to have more human interaction. Not sure if Pinegrow can offer a more social internet presence. Ideally, we’re too busy coding / designing to be posting. And there are lots of groups to join to discuss trends, etc. I think this is as good as the Pinegrow community gets, for now.
Also, without proper moderation, you may invite at least some of the kind of angry, thoughtless commentary associated with FB groups in general, or people “just passing through” with an opposing agenda.
That would make Pinegrow look bad to the public. Point is, careful thought should be given as to “what” this group is meant to be used for. And if it already exists, why bother?
I believe that you can set a Facebook group for public viewing but only allow posting for members only.
Though I’m not sure because it’s been a while since I set up a Facebook group.
ok thanks @Terry44, it’s bublic now but only members can post.
@rolandk thanks for your though here, i see your point. I belive, though, that social internet presence is fundamental to a busineeses in the technological field. Web coding and design (broadley speaking) are more and more blending an as a designer I can’t afford to snob “posting” Just my though here.
About moderation, usually a well grown comunity moderate itself.
To me the lack of “internet presence” + “looks bad to the public” plays a direct role in the problem, those two things combined was my point above.
The perceived general lack of awareness of Pinegrow and the lack of marketing and discussion in general throughout the web community concerning the app seems evident. I think users themselves can help to do more to make little strides in helping by sharing information through their own channels (social, etc.) and online activities (forums, etc.) when they can to spread info regarding Pinegrow.
But more importantly the Pinegrow team themselves needs to do a better job getting the word out about their own app, unless the money is rolling in and they don’t want more revenue or users :–) ? Don’t get me wrong I want them focused on improving the app and its furthered development at the forefront. But wouldn’t more users and revenue likewise help those efforts of development and progress moving forward? Not to mention its becoming a great app, more people in the web community should know about it - for that purpose alone.
In particular I was not really speaking regarding this facebook group, but more towards the larger picture of the web community at large gaining awareness of Pinegrow in general. Compared to the current perceived obscurity of the app throughout the web community. This facebook group is not really the answer towards those things in my opinion, its much a broader picture.
As wonderful of an app as Pinegrow is there are things that are frustrating, the silence being a key one.
I’m very torn on this issue, as there’s problems in the field with those who are not putting the time in to learn this profession properly, and then going out and screwing up jobs because they’re using “easy button” tools. PineGrow is a professional tool (and I hope it stays that way), and it’s not a Divi or Wix builder (thankfully). Others (those I’ve started to describe) may not see it that way. However, Facebook attracts that group of individuals who aren’t really serious, mark themselves as professionals, and who are actually quite dangerous to this profession. I’m a member of multiple “professional” groups, and all I see, all day long, postings to the effect of, “I took this job and pretended to be something I’m not and don’t know what to do, can you help me?” It’s horrible, and the rash of “quick code schools” are not helping, as they’re telling these folks that they’ll make $70k/year when they’re done with that course, which lasts just weeks. Thankfully they are starting to die off as the bubble is bursting. I’ve had to fix client sites that were touched by people like this, and it’s not been fun, and sometimes I’m the 3rd or 4th dev that’s worked on it in a year.
I’m all for a closed community, I’m paying for PG and I’m okay with that, and along with that payment I’m expecting it to stay as a professional tool in the hands of professionals, without any inroads to those who just don’t care and are looking to ruin a good thing. What I don’t want to see is that casual/non-serious group coming in, attempting to use it, complaining that it doesn’t work like Divi, Genesis, Uncode, or others, and that they “are having problems making a WordPress site” and then we’ll see postings such as, “I can’t figure this out and I’m working on a contract for a client” when they haven’t even cracked the Codex. This culture of “no skills needed” can pervert front-end development tools like PG, and it spreads like a cancer. For now, I’m perfectly happy using Slack and the forum, if needed. I’m happy paying more of PG if it stays as a professional development tool, as I use it for almost everything now that I’m comfortable with the new interface and workflow.
Potential revenue from a potential client base that is malignant can harm a software culture, and I like PG the way it is and where it looks like it’s going. The product owner just needs to stop advertising this on LinkedIn as a “build a website without learning to code” tool that I just recently saw (and I said something about). I prefer the smaller user base.
Shouldn’t Pinegrow be allowed to be a tool to help anyone learn or grow in the profession if they desire and are willing to invest in it along with the requirement of learning? Should the Pinegrow developers or its users try to segment who uses and funds the app beyond whats dictated already by the capabilities and workflows provided by the app to users?
Is it better for a person to pirate/crack the app (which the developers historically seem to be ok with) and end up using it professionally or an amateur who actually pays for and funds the app, actually desiring to learn something and grows their skills because of it? Pinegrow is actually a great learning tool even for non-professionals, or however you wish to classify them. So on-boarding more users for the purpose of learning or entering the market shouldn’t be frowned upon. Some even use it in institutional settings for the very purpose of educating students and amateurs. Were we all not amateurs and learning before becoming so called professionals, and given the rapidly changing nature of the field are we not all still students of this vast medium learning continuously?
Given the large presence of and tight integration with frameworks (Boostrap/Foundation) some professionals would consider that unprofessional and malignant, largely harming the web in general when used. Other professionals would view the code editor irregularities and lack of direct live integration with other code editors beyond Atom as unprofessional. While others would feel the mere presence and need for using a visual GUI for development as unprofessional. Others may find it unprofessional that the documentation is not updated and completely current, and the list could go on and on concerning what is deemed professional. So based upon those as just a few examples and given the many mindsets and varying needs among professionals in the web community, if it’s a professional app what class of professionals is it actually catering to? Should those professionals be segmented also?
This app or any other does not solely make anyone a professional or amateur by itself. So should software companies place limits on people as to whom can buy and for what reasons they embark upon using purchased apps? If revenue increases and professionals gain further features more rapidly due to greater financial security for sustainability of the business model. Does it then matter if someone with less knowledge that paid the same investment amount as the professional into the app asks a question on the forum or slack that someone may deem as being amateur? What precedence does such an outlook set, in this industry or any facet of life to segment people into classes with restrictions imposed by others?
Certainly! But that’s not the authors point (in which I agree a 100% in all points - just for the protocol).
Allow me a quote from another post which explains much:
P.S., & please…coding geniuses…please don’t answer by telling me I have to learn coding all over again…I’m hoping such an approach is not necessary in designing beautiful websites w/ Pinegrow…& I know enough to manipulate the written code post design…thanx
This is only one of many of the same kind of attitude. That’s why he mentioned the run for the golden cow - and that’s why he is preferring the closed communities which better controls the “I need money and have no time for anything else”. And those are the first cheating an app whatever name.
My two cents.
Yes, I am for this idea. I think anything that creates buzz and interest to help Pinegrow gain traction is a good thing. The more people buy Pinegrow, the more resources the developers will have to devote to future development. Just make sure that it’s carefully moderated.
I understood their point, however perhaps you failed to understand my overall thought of a broader topic.
This kind of “attitude” does not solely reside in this profession. Instead it’s a global, human and internet phenomenon in the age we live in, with no indication of subsiding. You can find this perceived attitude just as rampant across any profession and the internet as a whole regarding any topic or discussion. It has nothing specific to do with Pinegrow, other software or this industry.
So out of curiosity, in your view or the author you decided to defend with your response, who should be excluded from funding and using Pinegrow and deemed not worthy to use it or participate in the desired closed community?
- Single site owners, trying their best to succeed
- People willing to pay with a definitive desire to learn with no previous background
- An engineer, architect or other professional interested in learning web design with zero background
- Individuals with minimal HTML/CSS/JS knowledge
- Etc …
- Who ?
Since I am speaking to a broader topic with my comments, I’d like to understand this nonsense to fulfill the desire to try and establish a selective closed group while wishing to exclude others. Again, thats a slippery slope and what precedence does such an outlook set, in this industry or any facet of life to segment people into classes with restrictions imposed by others regarding what they can be involved in or accomplish?
Imagine the global economy or general business success, if this was the mindset.
I’m enjoying this debate
First things first:
Regarding the FB-Debate, I’d primary target the DEV guys what you’re after and what you want to do. Once you have got the OK, you can start or even ask the community - just to figure out on which track you are. Personally spoken, I don’t have a FB-account so I can’t be part anyway.
At the second level discussion and for all “just out of Curiosity” , it’s obviously better putting this on a new topic. If you remove words like “NONSENSE” and the like, chances increase that I’m rushin’ in telling you my standpoint.
You stated you agreed with 100%, it seems like your “standpoint” is clear. Aside from clarifying it further, take all the time you need, no reason to rush.
^ That is part of the 100% you agreed upon, so as stated in my previous response(s) who would you exclude from funding and using Pinegrow and restricting revenue from the developers?
The OP stated “help make this software more noticeable” I spoke to a broader sense of marketing and lack of awareness of the app. Then the whole aspect of a closed small community came up and the desire for restricting funding based upon whom should be allowed to use the app.
Now you don’t wish to finish that aspect of the conversation you helped create and further?
Me too. It’s simply not our job to promote an app or any other product. Our job might be helping the DEVs “ironing the kinks out”. Creating a nice, open-minded and helpful community works best in a more closed surrounding.
Any craft requires skills. WebDesign is a job and therefor a craft. Codeaphobics are ignoring the underlying languages and even make apps responsible for making things complicated.
Pinegrow helps reaching levels - no doubt. But only when a user agrees with the above mentioned requirements. If not - they are wrong in this industry.
This is a pretty daring theory worth sharing: