Number FIVE.....is.....ALIVE!

Let’s calm down or I’ll end up thinking that global warming has a particular influence on topics related to some of Pinegrow’s most anecdotal features! :slight_smile:

There is no plan to transform Pinegrow into a dedicated WordPress app, the W is just the first “brick” of the future evolution of Pinegrow tools.

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I think I understand your frustration but one thing is for sure, the ability to easily create WordPress themes from simple HTML files introduced with Pinegrow 2 in april 2015 is a totally innovative and unrivalled feature and represents a major business asset for Pinegrow.

This does not mean in any way that it will take precedence over the other expected features, whether minor or major, but just that it contributes significantly to the sustainability of Pinegrow, all versions combined.

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Yes.

Though from a customer perspective, you have three versions. Basic… Pro… and Wordpress theme builder editions.

I chose the PRO version. Not the Wordpress version, I do not want the wordpress version. Why annoy me with this in the interface?

Why can I just be happy with the PRO version and not have… Here… get the wordpress version… Here… WORDPRESS… get it!.. That is my problem and annoyance.

Well, that is an interesting and rare feedback.
Can you elaborate (beyond the simple removal of the WordPress tab in the PRO version which I think is at the culprit of your frustration) the points that could contribute to no longer feel this impression?

This would allow us to better understand and consider areas for improvement in the future.

Until any “evolution” is in place does it make sense to include something in the app, like an errant “W” causing confusion and no apparent current need? Also I hope when the said “evolution” is properly in place, that something better than basic letters for the UI is utilized to convey whatever it is your trying to represent regarding tools or versions. I also hope in the future it does not distract from the logo or brand.

I whole heartily hope Pinegrow is not in the least amount resting on such a philosophy. As others are quickly coming and offering every feature Pinegrow possess.

One instance, supposedly CoffeeCup Software is bringing forth a “Wordpress Theme Builder” according to their main page. While they and others already have visual CSS Grid, Flexbox, Bootstrap, Foundation, etc.,

I’m certainly not advocating their apps or saying they are better in any way in comparison to Pinegrow.

But assuming Pinegrow does have “unrivaled features” (which seems subjective given frontend developers wide perception throughout the industry), choosing to not push the core app forward aggressively will be a major mistake as others come forth with various alternatives and rival features.

While regardless if Pinegrow is actually better in various ways, others will seemingly continue to do a better job of offering community awareness with marketing throughout the industry to make the industry aware of their products and features.

It seems the industry is still either largely unaware or remains confused with Pinegrows features and abilities, “unrivaled” or not. Which is too bad as its a great tool with endless “potential”, people just need to be made better aware of it throughout the industry.


This year will yield many apps that offer visual methods for various front end development.

These are coming fast and many, with clean code export. CSS Grid, Flexbox, etc.,

So feeling any app or process is “unrivaled” should be considered folly in an industry that evolves and moves so fast, with competition and alternatives always coming forth. I just hope the Pinegrow “core app” will keep up with various industry requirements. Again the Angular and Materialize versions are outdated in the app, is that considered innovative also? ;–)

:evergreen_tree: :hearts:

It is not a pedantic assertion nor the negation of the competition but the expression of the fact that to date, there is no similar integration for the creation of WordPress themes in the universe of webdesign applications and we are extremely proud to have largely innovated in this field and to have allowed many designers to approach the creation of WordPress themes more simply than ever.

Then I understand that you like to talk about Pinegrow’s evolution, what’s missing or what it would take to be even better. We always hear your very detailed feedback and you can be sure that we always consider it carefully.

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If @Terry44 frustrations comes from the addition of the W beside the Pinegrow logo instead would it be possible to have a different character display depending on which version of a user has and also have it link to tutorials, etc specific to the version (maybe a page on the website that displays articles or videos based on the features in Basic v Pro v WP). For example:

Pinegrow-Basic Pinegrow-WP Pinegrow-Pro

This approach might elevate the feeling @Terry44 is talking about and help integrate/streamline the connection between the version and the support documentation. Just a thought.

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Why have anything positioned directly against the logo? Branding .000101 understands this is a poor idea, ask any brand. ;–)

Hmmm…

If you look here on the features section of PG’s homepage we even have a good starting point for each re: linking to articles

Yeah you’re right, @Rob.

I forgot Pinegrow like Coca-Cola has already likewise spearheaded a global brand and marketing initiative spanning 132 years and is recognized through the web industry as the de-facto leader of web software. The pinecone logo alone hearkens peoples minds globally to its brand of products. So yeah no need to adhere to any branding standards, since everyone the world over already recognizes Pinegrow as top of the heap throughout the industry as an identifiable an unequivocal brand. Its foolish at this point to need to establish clean awareness or brand identity anymore, since they’ve clearly made it with global awareness, just like Coca-Cola.

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This discussion is interesting and all ideas are welcome, whether good or not. It seems to me that anyone can contribute and that constructive exchange can exist without the need for sarcasm or lessons from others.

Note: Imho, I feel it is just sad, on a launch day, to discuss so much about a 40x40 px part of the UI :slight_smile:

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What is more sad is that on a launch day not a single tweet, or social media post was made by any of the developers or team about version 5’s release. I am sure Coke (since we are comparing) does the same when they release a new flavor or product. :–)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Its said … “pride and haughtiness comes before the fall”. Not saying that is the case here – but good luck with everything moving forward concerning Pinegrow, sincerely.

Sadly most would never know it, regarding their input, myself included. In closing the only reason I ever took time to provide input (detailed or otherwise) is to make suggestions that may make the product better for all, there was never anything selfish when I provided detailed input for the app and its developers. Just like CSS Gradients Link 1 & Link 2, not that anyone uses those nowadays :-), but it’s nice it made it “silently” into the app nonetheless.

Of which I am now choosing to be done providing said input and suggestions. So everyone can rejoice.

Well I guess the way I see it is that Coca-Cola is the company and the have a range of products that all have their own form of identity, much like Cadburys chocolate, every type of bar carries the Cadburys logo and then each have their own individual brand

All these companies started out with one product and then expanded, when they expanded their range they didn’t decide to keep everything under the same name/brand, they established a distinguishing marque for each under the umbrella of the company. Can you imagine if all Ford car models were called Model T.

This is a disappointing decision and a loss for the community.

Come on, we have never failed to promote Pinegrow on the major social networks when launching its different versions and this will still be the case for this version 5.

Now, if the feedback of our customers and users is essential to us to make Pinegrow evolve, being master of the clocks with regard to our communication on social networks remains one of our prerogatives:)

Yay! PineGrowUser filter set to defunct

Good lord guys, I have been out doing hospital visits, looking after old people, doctors, after having downloaded this and having had NO TIME to play with and

Really! Sweet Jesus.
What a load of old tosh comments!
There is SOME, very little, well constructed Feedback. Well done on that :slight_smile: but the rest?

My god, … really? REALLY? how Constructive, non toxic and whiney is some of that.
I’m pretty tangential at times, and even I AM … wierded out by the vehemence of some of this, over VERY LITTLE … annoyances… weirdnesses… odd choices, but man!

The chosen method of delivery… kind of lacks some etiquette.

Anyway, I am looking forward to playing around and I hope everyone gets over their mojo and PLAYS with this, starts to use it constructively and then… comes back with some useful feedback.

I mean, "W"s… marketing… global marketing… implicated Wordpress pushing…

man.

I have been known to delete some of my less than glorious comments over my time here,
It may benefit some of these to share the same fate and then,
hey!
Chin up … crack on.

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I only pointed out the “W” because I thought it was a mistake (as the link is the same as clicking the pinecone.) I don’t mean to beat a dead horse, but I’ve never once had a need to go to a software company’s website while in the midst of using their program. On RARE occasions, I might go to their forum, but I have this bookmarked in my browsers, one of which is always open on one of my monitors.

Many years ago, one of the things that drove a lot of us who use Adobe programs bonkers is when they put a link to their homepage at the bottom of the toolbars in Photoshop and Illustrator. It was so close to the tools, that you could easily accidentally click it, and this was back in the Windows XP days, when computers were slower, browsers were slower and the internet was much slower. One errant click and you had to wait about 10-20 seconds for the stupid browser to open and load the page before you could close it. It was an infuriating source of interruptions, and we complained vehemently. Finally, after a few more releases, Adobe removed it. A rare instance of them listening to their customers.

As Pinegrow is a single monitor program, real estate is at a premium. Anything that is not vital to using the program should be hidden away in a menu. Things that are frequently accessed (like breakpoint sizes) would benefit from being icons rather than a pulldown menu example: Untitled-1

As for the Wordpress debate… I have the Pro, NON-Wordpress version of the program, and honestly I don’t want to see any of the Wordpress version features in any of my panels or menus, but there they are. And more than that, they can be “quasi-activated” causing code changes, despite the fact that I can’t build Wordpress templates with my version of the program. example… why should any of the stuff in red even be possible in the non-Wordpress version of Pinegrow? I can activate it, interact with the panels, and it changes the HTML even though I can’t even build a Wordpress Template. Honestly, I don’t care if they remain, but they should at least be non-selectable/grayed out so I can’t pretend to activate them.

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(Thanks PrintNinja for your input - - please see my inserts)