Dreamweaver 2017 final

Stupidly expensive program,
and, damn! if that doesnt look like our PineGrow Interface…

The filter system is funky , and the picture re arrange thing,
as well as the data presentation graph stuff, but they are functions, not design.
SO great for a functionality (I guess linked to some funky backend stuff)
but

not of any consequence to my design. but good to see.
however …£399? not at my amateur level.
free version?
well… OF COURSE!
:slight_smile:

that will get seen too, but I’m happy to contiue plodding away with PineGrow.
Like, always.
and since the interface looks SO similar!>
mind you, the “+” parts above and below an element, to add the next element, now THAT is an interesting feature.

I understand the upfront and maintainable costs will certainly be a turn off for many people. But I think for others the ability to visually connect and manipulate backend dynamic sources, will prove useful.

Honestly, a person would probably only need to produce one or two dynamic sites or apps (depending on their complexity) to fully recoup both the upfront and the next years maintainable costs.

It just comes down to value and return for each person, like any application in a persons workflow. At a minimum the Free version will be interesting to try - if and when its ever released. But I’m curious how dumbed down it may be feature wise however, aside from the extensions found in the other versions, if they will likewise remove other features.

Obviously Dreamweaver seemingly no longer continues to make the grade for many of its users and people continue to seek alternatives.


Side Note:

I wish the Pinegrow team would update the main website to reflect what has been seen in a few screenshots lately. I feel they continue to really miss out on properly marketing and showcasing all the wonderful features and aspects of Pinegrow.

For such a powerful well designed app, Pinegrow sadly still seems hidden from most peoples consciousness in the web community and is not being discussed much overall. I would like to see it pushed into the general discussion across various channels and properly marketed and showcased to web designers and developers.

Too much silence, for such a wonderful application. It deserves to be more widely known.

:evergreen_tree: :heart:

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In my opinion, this is only money-making (ripp off).
With DMXZone I can only advise you to be careful. I bought an extension of them once and had to realize that some functions promised on the website were not available at all (A trial version was not offered). When I pointed this out to the company and asked them to return the money, I received an answer only after repeated enquiries with reference to the general terms and conditions, after which I would have no right of return. And they also changed the article description quickly, so that I could not prove the “fraud” any more.

Hi @fishmi, 2 years later and the OG OP returns to the thread, welcome back.

Yeah I can attest to those aspects, at least as an onlooker.

I have never used any of their products. But from what I have seen, I have not been remotely impressed with how they have marketed and communicate publicly regarding Wappler along the way. As I watched talk of this Wappler product unfold, it was truly a colossal mess of confusion, misdirection and a few outright lies that were later corrected. DMXZone / Wappler changed many things along the way, when pointed out as inaccurate by people. They continue to be very vague (deceitfully?) about important aspects of their app and the offering.

I hope people participating in the crowdfunding or buying Wappler wont get duped. But then again that would be a terrible start if DMXzone chose to use such tactics and certainly would not be profitable long term for this new product starting out.

It seems the only Dreamweaver Killer out there is Adobe themselves.

With every version released they cut the software down more. I no longer have any association to Adobe or their products but many people that used to use it no longer touch it as it is no longer relevant in today’s web design world.

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Indeed.

They really seem to be in a continued state of confusion concerning everything web related for the last decade. Long list of web related app casualties showing confusion concerning direction by Adobe in everything pertaining to the web.

Welcome back by the way @Terry44, been a while since seeing you.

I think the problem that Adobe faces is that the web is always changing, and it’s hard for them to predict what technology those of us in the industry are going to embrace, and what we’re going to reject. When Adobe Muse came out in 2012, Responsive design was the new buzzword. A year later, Responsive design was on fire, and designers were scrambling to get out in front and learn the techniques so they could offer it to their clients. Meanwhile there was still a fair amount of debate as to whether it was better to have separate sites for mobile and desktop, or if designing for mobile was even going to become that important. It was hard to predict just how much mobile was going to take over the landscape, but the signs were there… continuous growth each year.

It took THREE YEARS before Adobe finally brought media queries to Muse. February 2016 was when they released their responsive-capable update. Nine months later, mobile search queries exceeded desktop for the first time in history. Fifteen months later, Adobe announced they were discontinuing Muse.

Adobe is a leviathan. It takes them YEARS to develop and deploy a new piece of software. It takes them months to even decide on a direction when it comes to adding new features. Heck, there are still infuriating interface differences between their major programs like Photoshop and Illustrator, issues that have existed and been complained about for over TWENTY YEARS!

Put simply, they are just too big and slow to be competitive in the world of website software. The environment changes too fast, and is too unpredictable. The concept behind Muse was admirable - a website builder for people who didn’t want to touch code, and in particular, designers who understood good front end design, but lacked the coding skills to do the things they could envision. What Adobe needed was a program like InDesign that simply created pages for the web, instead of print. They couldn’t pull it off. Dreamweaver was never that program, and never will be. Muse started out in that direction, but couldn’t do the code properly. Not to mention that Adobe is notorious for releasing bug-filled, half-baked, beta versions and using their paying customers to report all the problems. Then they make the users suffer for months while they slowly fix some (but not all) things in dribs and drabs, and announce updates like they’ve just cured cancer.

I remember when they FINALLY added responsive design to Muse, and marketed it like it was the second coming of Christ. Meanwhile, users had been jumping ship for years to anything… Macaw, Webflow, Wix, Weebly, that allowed them to offer their clients mobile friendly layouts. It was too little, too late, and now that they’ve realized they can’t stay competitive, they’ve just told their loyal client base who stuck with them through all their lousy, slow updates that it’s over, “so sad… too bad… but thanks for all the money!”

I went from loving Adobe in the 90’s, to liking it in the 2000’s, to really hating it in the 10’s.

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What would help is if the devs gave copies of the software to more magazines to review. Reviews are one of the ways people find and give new software a try.

Well they finally released Wappler, including the Free scaled back version. It certainly has a ways to go concerning features, especially given all the hype and verbiage they have used to promote it.

Interesting comparison comments already concerning Pinegrow on their forum.

https://community.wappler.io/t/wappler-vs-pinegrow/1030

I saw a question in their forum which asked why the software is $399 a year? I had to do a double-take! That is pricey! Right away, people were defending it, but I know for me, I won’t buy it no matter what it can do, because that’s just outrageous. I mean, that’s almost what you’d pay for the entire Adobe creative suite, which is something like 15 strong programs.

Hi guys,
I’m part of Wappler testing group and backer, and I’m a big fan of it. @Printninja says that Wappler costs almost as an Adobe annual license? That’s not true - Adobe charges almost $830 for the whole creative suite.
I think that Wappler has a great opportunity to replace Dreamweaver totally, its all I need for my own projects (freelancer), so… Yes, they have a long way to go but the team is on the right track for sure. It’s all perfectly going and I can finally start creating my reactive web projects with Wappler

It seems I spoke in haste. The entire Creative Cloud of programs is $52.99 a month = $635.88 per year. If you add on Adobe Stock Photos, then it is $82.98 a month = $995.76 per year (ouch!) If you only wanted Dreamweaver (or Muse), it would be $20.99 a month = $251.88

Anyway, Pinegrow Pro or /Pro w/ Wordpress beats all of these at $15 or $20 a month, or $180/$240 per year. And this is assuming you choose to renew. You can always stick with the version you’ve purchased, like I did with my old Adobe CS programs. I don’t know if Wappler offers a non-subscription model.

Hmmm… I just went to go see if Wappler offers a non-subscription model, and it seems someone is squatting on the domain wappler.com! Asking price is around $3300.00! Whoops. I wonder who they upset?

It seems that many users (including beta testers) are complaining about Wappler.

Yeah I noticed that also on their forum. Now they went through and added a link to the 1.0.1 update in many of those posts saying a lot things were fixed. So it will be interesting to see what new complaints surface next. :wink:

Now they put up a comparison chart (from their perspective) with includes Pinegrow among others.

https://wappler.io/comparison

The situation doesn’t seem to have improved with the last 1.0.1:

Perhaps Pinegrow is not as bad as described in the comparative table of the aforementioned link and maybe Wappler is not as powerful as they have described (maybe they launched it too early).

Interesting chart. They seemed to deliberately downplay the features of other programs (which is to be expected of course considering it’s their chart.) Their main competitive advantage appears to be in the program’s ability to work live with databases. I’ve never built a database-driven website, so I’d have no interest in that aspect of Wappler. So for me, the question is, does it offer anything superior OUTSIDE of this database capability? Their chart doesn’t really answer that very well.

:slight_smile: well, anyone who uses Pinegrow to create a theme and populate it with stuff, after the funky frontend thing IS USING a database driven website :slight_smile:
that’s a nice tangential angle to think of :slight_smile:

Disclaimer, NB I’m obviously biased - as I when my life stops bursting into flames and I have time to tinker, Pinegrow just is the way forward for me. I have other things too, but hey… I don’t care. This is the One

I just like the whole thing, community, program and it has now outgrown my skill set anyway, so there is plenty for me to grow into, even before I note more things that may not work as I’d expect/desire, so I’m happy with that. And not being a pro user helps I guess too :slight_smile:

They should of included that Pinegrow continues to work after you choose not to purchase updates, while Wappler instead reverts to the free version with no access to the extensions when your paid support ends. Thats just one interesting and important fact, among others they failed to express in the chart.

Since announcing the endeavor of their own app, DMXzone have never been at a loss of deliberately over-hyping things, even to the point of complete falsehood in some statements and marketing. That has not changed since going public which provides a lot for them to live up to concerning their own marketing. It seems like some early supporters are already fed up with all the empty promises and existing faults, even those whom were beta testers and heavily touting the app.

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Lol @ your “funky frontend thing” comment. :smile:

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