What’s a Front-end reactive framework?
Was in the comparison chart for wappler.
That George guy comes down hard on people in the forum. Totally opposite of Pinegrow devs… Crazy
if I look at the Wappler comparison table, with the support to create dynamic behaviors (php) and connection to the databases (e.g. myql) Pinegrow would become the true “dreamweaver killer”.
They’re the new kid on the block, and they built themselves up with a lot of promises that in turn created a lot of expectations. Being a brand new release, it’s unclear whether their devs understood that there will always be a ton of criticisms on a debut product from all the people whose expectations are not being met. Also, no new software is bug-free, and as hard as the devs may try, they’re never going to find all the bugs the way the users will in the first few weeks.
So they’re probably getting hammered with bug reports left and right, and this would make any dev a little testy. It remains to be seen if they can weather through this period of growing pains, and improve the program fast enough to not discourage their base.
Comparing Applications sucks! In their chart, they say “Server Side Code” -> No DB connectivity. But Pinegrow supports PHP, ASP and ERB or am I wrong here?
Cheers
Thomas
Comparison charts created by the software companies themselves have to be taken with a grain of salt (or many grains.)
What you really want to see is a comparison chart created by an independent review site, so you get relatively unbiased information. I expect we will start seeing more reviews of Pinegrow as word of its unique capabilities spreads through the community of website developers.
It appears they are speaking of ReactJS, AngularJS, VueJS, etc., verse their App Connect extension(s). But I honestly don’t know what their app connect offers vs various MVC, Frontend etc., frameworks. That feature seems to be the leading feature for marketing their app, visual backend input and connections. Other visual aspects of their app are not very impressive at this point from the looks of it.
Nope you’re not wrong, there are multiple inaccuracies and discrepancies in their chart (no surprise).
Exactly.
Another funny one was a PDF put out by a Muse related entity that simply called Pinegrow a Bootstrap Builder, saying they deep tested the apps. However it was just garbage reviews to point people to Webflow.
The company behind it has been around since the 90’s I believe or early 2000’s. They developed many of the 3rd party plugins for Dreamweaver for YEARS and are now creating their own app based off of what they learned from the years of plugin development. Unfortunately they are using what they learned from those many years of development including the harshness, closed processes, proprietary code and high price subscription. Almost bully like which is what I see with that George guy in the way he addresses and interacts with their customers. It was same with the plugins, we are the hottest and best and we don’t care if they don’t work all the time they work enough and have the features we want them to have based off what we tell you our customers want. AND our customers LOVE our products, you have a problem with em… tough luck to you they work for most everyone else so piss off.
That is the attitude I have come to know from them and that is the attitude I am seeing on their forum from the CEO / President. Our products are best you don’t like it, go somewhere else and NO REFUNDS for you.
NOW compare that to the Pinegrow developers attitude and interaction they have with their paying and looky loo potential customers / users. It is night and day interaction, thinking and behavior comparing to what I have seen over at that other company and their forum.
I never really liked a lot of their products but at a certain time they were the only ones on the block that were adding the functionality into the main web tool of the day, Dreamweaver, when the developers of DW would not build in the neccesary functionality to meet the standards of the day. Database integration was my main interest at the time.
I don’t know, you don’t have to be a dick or constantly be on people for wanting improvements in the products they develop. From day one my experience with that group over there and the attitude they have is more bully oriented and it is top down apparently within the company. I would rather hand code than use any of their products just for that reason alone.
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Find myself in total agreement. I purchased one of their extensions that in simple terms did not work. Even after multiple screenshots showing numerous error boxes a refund was refused. It took paypal about 3 seconds to refund once i did a chargeback.
I’ll never be using them again.
Sadly this seems to be pretty standard now days, most new apps are marketed as the “first ever”, “worlds best”, “industry leader”, and so on. DMXzone seems to have taken it to an entirely different level with this app from day one however. It’s getting beyond silly as a whole and is widespread across the entire marketing and advertising industries. Little integrity seems left in advertising or perhaps society in general as falsehoods run rampant.
Generally its not a good indication starting out when an app or anything has no users and already claims to be the industry standard or leader. Instead the industry itself and users should determine such accolades over the course of time and versions.
This is also another funny one, but people seem to be eagerly buying into their philosophies and marketing. 
@sitestreet seems to like the app, but they did give Pinegrow some nice props over there also though.
I’ve been a Pinegrow user since v1 and absolutely love it. It’s helped me learn how Wordpress works as I now build Wordpress themes with Pinegrow and the latest updates have just made it better and better.
I’m also a Wappler backer from their Indiegogo campaign and have purchased various Dreamweaver plugins from them (DMXZone) over the years.
I would love Pinegrow and Wappler to somehow join forces. Pinegrow’s way of working for front-end layouts is brilliant. Building pages from scratch using all the various technologies (Bootstrap, SASS, LESS, CSS, etc.) is a breeze and building Wordpress themes is just as easy.
Where Wappler comes in is its way of making it easy to do web development. Creating bespoke websites with features like logging in, querying the database, showing the data, front-end forms to update the data, sending emails, I could go on and on. But, Wappler isn’t a patch on Pinegrow for page layout.
So, at the moment I’m either building sites with Wordpress where I’m using Pinegrow for everything, or I’m building bespoke sites in which case I’m using Pinegrow for the page layouts and then taking those into Wappler for the actual development.
Wappler isn’t as polished as Pinegrow, that’s clear to see, but it is looking very promising.
I repeat what I mentioned earlier in this post. If Pinegrow and Wappler were to join forces, you would definitely have the ultimate development tool to create just about anything.
Meanwhile, the complaints increase:
https://community.wappler.io/t/what-is-your-roadmap-about-wappler-and-dmxzone-extensions-support-in-future/1249
I actually feel sorry for any company trying to debut website software in today’s market, because the number of ways you can build a site compared to how things were done when Dreamweaver was the only game in town has become positively dizzying. This is great for people who want feature-laden website, but it sure puts a lot of pressure on those of us who build sites for a living, and the people who develop the software trying to accommodate everyone at once.
One of my own challenges was when I’d build my sites in a certain way, and then all of a sudden clients would start asking for some “cool new feature” they saw on someone else’s site (parallax for example), and I’d have to explain to them that it’s just a fad, and it’s not going to add to the usability or marketing ability of your website. I find the same thing is happening now with all the animated elements that come flying, fading, flipping and spinning in from all directions as people scroll the page. It may look kind of cool, but does it really make the site better, or easier to negotiate? In most cases, I think not. I’m not saying there is not a place for such things. If you really want to draw attention to a particular piece of text or an image on a page, an animation of some sort might be good, but I see no point in having every element on a page moving just for the sake of movement. Anyway, I digress.
Pinegrow has made a smart choice to stick to being primarily a strong, straightforward front-end builder. Adding in the Wordpress feature was also a great decision. I actually hope Pinegrow doesn’t try to compete with Wappler, but rather stays focused on staying the best front-end website building software in the industry.
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Interesting discussion taking place over there …
It looks like most the Wappler users posting in the above thread like Pinegrow better for Frontend Design. 
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I read the thread. The founder wrote the following
“This is why Wappler depends for all its powerful stuff on its own App Connect framework for front-end data rendering and on its own Server Connect for all the Server Side stuff”
As a developer and designer I have used many many different tools over the years and the ones I hated the most were the ones with their own built-in way of doing things instead of using standards based methods and allowing me as the designer / developer to change things how I want it to work. I feel Wappler is going to lock people into some proprietary locked box that unless you use Wappler you are not going to be able to change the site. I am talking more about the back-end than the front-end.
I don’t like being locked into how software engineers think I should do things. Not a fan of that at all.
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@Terry44, I agree it seems very closed, buyer beware.
I’ve noticed people continue to compare Wappler with Pinegrow. It seems like their developers are too, now with the start of a Visual CSS Editor, talk of Foundation support, etc.,
As seen here, with someone requesting and suggesting CSS visual controls like Pinegrow.
Which then quickly brought forth these …
- https://community.wappler.io/t/rfc-new-design-panel-now-as-experimental-feature/2470
- https://community.wappler.io/t/review-the-new-design-panel-updated/2600
- https://community.wappler.io/t/review-design-panel-part-3-borders/2692
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Which so far seems to be included with the “Free” download version, but no bootstrap navbar.
I guess if nothing else:
Its interesting to see all these tools progress and compete with each other, which is good for the consumer. Its nice to see the Wappler developers engaged with their users and community when passing through that forum. But their repeated marketing and superlatives about the product in every sentence is beyond annoying to read.
Dreamweaver users continue to be disenchanted with its state of progress and direction. While more and more tools seem to be springing up and advancing with features.
Looks like Wappler is evolving considerably faster than I’d have expected. I may bite the bullet and download the free trial.
It seems PG is very well known over there. Eventually, wappler might come up with all the visual tools PG has plus their stuff…Competition logic. Good for users, a pain for companies.
They have actually achieved more in the first year of their existence, than Pinegrow up to v3 offered 
excluding the WP support, of course - as the guys at Wappler don’t seem really interested in supporting WP. But who needs WP support when they have all the back-end tools you need to build your own CMS?