Just about done with Adobe DW - I've had it. Hello PG!

Adobe continues to push me away with each release. DW 2017 is no exception.

They have completely abandoned Classic ASP, even though thousands of developers still need to support these types of pages.

They have also completely screwed up the code coloring, which is critical when working with ASP or PHP.

They have completely removed Classic ASP code complete. Again - why would you do this?

So here I am, just purchased PG (upgraded actually) in hope this is a platform I can move to, or at a minimum, rely on as a backup editor.

The part that makes this difficult for me is I have to abandon all the DW extensions I have purchased over the years, and some of them are quite good.

Is anyone else in the same boat?

One major thing PG is missing (IMHO) is a built in FTP client.

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Yes, I am in same boat with Adobe and it is not just Dreamweaver but the entire new 2017 versions of their apps that people are complaining about and manually reverting back to the previous versions. I do not use ASP but I do PHP and the new version of DW is almost identical in features to Brackets which is open source so why use DW anymore?

I also need a visual editor to help with certain design aspects I can’t hand code myself so Pinegrow seems interesting along with the animation plugin available for it which I think is only 20 or 30 dollars.

Adobe has chosen to abandon freelancers and small shops for corporate work flows and gearing it all to teams working together. If you are in individual or small 2 or 3 person shop Adobe don’t want you. My account was accidentally closed by customer service rep from India. Once that was done I couldn’t do anything to open it again without paying for another 12 month contract length or monthly at the higher rate but then I would have to also create a new login at Adobe and jump through hoops so I just got a full refund of all fees I paid over this last year and am now looking around at options. My fireworks PNG files are forever locked so I can’t get access to the layers or turned off layers of content inside them. PSD files are importable to other apps so that is good but most my work is in Firewoks for mockups and graphics. Muse files are locked up too.

I am glad I am no longer tied to Adobe or paying their fees but trying to find replacements for everything I was using is a pain. I am on Windows computers and not Mac, for Mac there are quite a few options but to buy a new multi-thousand dollar computer for $50 softwares is not something I am going to do.

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Well said - I’ll be diving into PineGrow and checking it out - I didn’t even know they had plugins for it, so thanks for that info!

Frankly, I don’t like subscriptions, plus there is a legal issue. Once you upgrade past CS, what you are doing is you are offering up your intellectual property for hostage. I have owned every version of Adobe’s mater collection since the launch of CS. Some of my work is extremely complex (particularly AfterEffects, Premiere, Photoshop, AI, etc.). The way that I use the tools to create my work – my process - is my intellectual property. On the corporate side, the same is true where I work. If you ever stop paying rent to Adobe, you will no longer have access to that intellectual property. All you have is the finished work. Because of this, the only Adobe app that I am using that is 100% current is Acrobat, which is not on a subscription.

As for retaining your web design and site files, you have your assets, style sheets, HTML and other code, etc., and for the most part it is portable. This is not so with intricately layered files in which there can be an elaborate spiderweb of interactions going on - interactions that cannot be exported. Rather than having an editable movie, all you get to keep are unedited video clips and stills. You can’t even keep the titles. If you leave Adobe Premiere, you have to rebuild the entire movie from scratch…

I am testing Pinegrow because I decided to check out the latest version of DW and, to be honest, I did not see anything close to the five years of advances that I had expected since I had stopped using DW back in 2010. I expected a really serious overhaul. As far as the intermediate user is concerned, the main thing was a nod towards Bootstrap.

My challenges so far are in knowing what I want and trying to figure out how to get it - a huge amount of trial-and error. Even so, I’m done with DW.

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Well said TYCD -

My favorite front end designer by far is Webflow - the interface is top notch. I then export the code and add my PHP with Dreamweaver.

Since Pinegrow allows editing of the code, PG can replace Dreamweaver for this part of my process. I doubt I will use PG for front-end design because I’m very satisfied with Webflow. But once exported from Webflow, PG will allow me to make CSS changes when needed, add server code, etc.

The only real shortfall of PG that I can see now (aside from a sort of clumsy interface) is the lack of FTP. I can live with that for now…but hopefully 3.0 will change all these shortcomings…

You make some good points with Adobe - I didn’t even think of losing those details with workflow.

Webflow seems to be only web based which would be a no go for me. If you use Fireworks export all your fireworks PNG layers to separate files or you will forever lose them. There is no other application that can open them.

I lost access to my Adobe Creative Cloud subscription rather suddenly due to a customer service rep error and I am forever locked out of all my fireworks PNG files except for what is being shown and not hidden due to layers turned off in the files. Their flat files to any other app.

I have been playing with Pinegrow, I probably will end up buying it soon but it is not a code generator where if you don’t know how to create the code yourself it won’t generate it for you. There are some CSS things I don’t know how to do, I like how Muse allows you to select roundness of corners and move things on the screen where you want it then create the CSS and JS that will provide that result… I don’t see Pinegrow having that but I have not played too much with it yet.

I like the CSS media query creation and ability to have multiple versions of the same doc open to play with dimensions side by side each other. Desktop version, Mobile version side by side. Can’t do that with Muse or Dreamweaver, not like this.

Stil playing with it though. If you do code yourself I would advise using a separate dedicated code editor along side Pinegrow, I tried the different code editing features in it and I would go nuts if this was the only way I was editing the code.

PHP for instance, Pinegrow assumes embedding into html with a little php here and there not an entire application that generates the HTML itself. It is a fail in that respect compared to Dreamweaver where you can get a live view of the page from a local web server and use DW as the code editor… Pinegrow is more for static pages, the dynamic stuff with backend coding from what I can tell needs to be done in something else. They recommend Atom but I prefer Brackets and Notepad++.

Terry - I agree on the PHP and PG - this makes me a bit hesitant from jumping in…

What do you mean you use Brackets AND Notepad++? Why would you need both?

Personal preference. Sometimes it is just quicker to load up Notepad++ and code, I have a lot of customization to my version with plugins and what not. I don’t want to be bothered sometimes with an IDE which Brackets is more that than strict text editor and Notepad++ can also be IDE like as well depending on how you have it setup.

For me in general Notepad++ is quicker but Brackets I use for full on projects. Notepad++ is quicker and easier with side by side views and you can lock both scroll constraints, width and height so you are in synch with both versions of either the same file, looking at different spots in a long file or comparing to one or more different files at the sametime.

Nothing exists that is be all end all, some programs it is easier to do that one thing in. If I am just editing one file I am usually in Notepad++ though not always.

It comes down to knowing your tools and what the strengths and weaknesses are as well as your own personal work flow.

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Does Brackets or Notepad++ have FTP built in? One thing I like about DW is I can setup “sites”, or projects…does either do that as well?

Also, who makes Brackets? It’s open source, but I see a lot of references to Adobe?

Thanks for sharing your info!

Adobe initiated the Brackets project and released it as Open Source, the community took it from there.

Yes, both Brackets and Notepad++ have plugins that give them FTP ability. I personally choose to use a stand alone application Filezilla which is also open source https://filezilla-project.org

Notepad++ supports projects and each site you setup in Brackets is also a project. If you have an existing folder setup on your hard drive you can designate the folder structure as a project in Notepad++ or setup a new project.

There is also code hinting support via addon / plugin in both applications for whatever language you are using. I think out of the box brackets covers most the web scripting languages.

Though for projects I prefer Brackets over Notepad++ though like I said you can set them up in both. Session support is provided for in Notepad++ where you can set it to save your work space along with your files ever X minutes or however long you choose.

Both are free applications so it doesn’t hurt to install them both. For all text documents that are not word processor documents like formatted doc or odt formats I use Notepad++. I also use LibreOffice for an open source office suite that opens and saves documents in microsoft office formats, it is not office but does everything I need.

I also have a custom installation of Apache web server, MySQL and PHP which I manually installed and configured in my windows though I guess Windows 10 now supports many linux softwares out of the box but I have not messed with that.

Brackets, Notepad++ and probably Pinegrow will be my work flow going forward. Then Affinity Designer which just was released today and whenever Affinity Photo is released those will be my main graphic design applications. I also have used something called Krita and My Paint for open source graphic software. Though I am switching to the Serif Affinity Line now for web graphics and UI interface design.

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Just wanted to say that if you are using Atom you can add a package that will give it FTP abilities.

My issue with Atom is there is no split screen (among other small things). It’s nice no doubt - I love that it has indent guides, something DW doesn’t have. PineGrow has them, which is great too.

One major sticking point for me with PG is the inability to really use PHP in the code - it has some serious limitations.

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After testing Pinegrow for a few days it has some SERIOUS limitations as a code editor but as a visual designer which I think it is designed more for it is really good. Honestly if all I was doing is comparing widths of my designs I do that with web browsers so technically I don’t need PG for that either. The automatic reformatting of my code is something I strongly dislike as well. I don’t use frameworks all that often but PG seems to be good at implementing the ones it has incorporated in it. Though for immediate response in code editor and seeing it update in the visual display I have that already with Brackets and it’s link to Chrome but it is ONLY Chrome it has that link with the other browsers I manually refresh.

Still playing with it, I am on Day 5 of my Trial, still trying to see if it is worth the $100 for the Pro version. I guess there is a new version coming out, 3.0 but I don’t see anywhere that reflects the features in that version anywhere.

The developers seem to be listening to the Features request forum submittals but will see. I am watching the tutorial videos on Youtube for PG and there are some impressive things being demonstrated but actually playing in PG itself I see a lot of limitations too. I am glad there is a trial but 7 days may not be long enough for me to decide, dunno.

Have you found any other commercial software that is similar to PG or better equipped that is not Adobe or cost $500? I am on windows so it has to be windows compatible. If I had a Mac I would go with Tumult Hype and be done but windows, good web design software is few and far between…

Aside from Webflow for front end design, not really. Haven’t found anything aside from what’s already been mentioned - Atom, Brackets, etc…they all seem to have shortcomings for someone :wink:

[quote=“ShorePatrol, post:14, topic:371”] they all seem to have shortcomings for someone

This is true for all software and perhaps most things in general. Hard to satisfy everyone and every need. The developers listen and watch feedback. So certainly keep an eye on Pinegrow regardless if you feel its currently not right for you presently.

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@ShorePatrol Pinegrow is integrated with Atom and you can use Atom for FTP purposes by adding a FTP Package. I haven’t done it myself because I use PG + Coda + Codekit but sometimes I use Atom because of the PG integration.

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hey TYCD have you heard of Affinity Designer is like (Photoshop & illustrator in one) & Affinity Photo is like (Photoshop) they are just like Photoshop & illustrator Use these for your Designing tools ! they both are a one time payment which is $49.99 it was $39 when it first came out. No damn subscriptions which i hate!!! heck i don’t like paying a cable bill & internet…check em out! they Mac & windows https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/

P.S. i hate DW never like it.
loved Brackets till Adobe messed it up taking away extract for Brackets

terry PG can do Wordpress and Html, PHP! that $100 bucks aint nothing compared to if you had a subscription like Adobe. so a one time payment against a subscription I’ll Take PG any day!! look at Elementor that thing is about $199

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This thread is 6 months old. A lot changed in that time. PG still can not really be used to develop PHP but it really isn’t meant for that. It’s more a front end designer than a back end one.

It depends on the version of PG you have whether you get all the bells and whistles to develop Wordpress Themes or not. I personally do NOT use wordpress so I just went with the Pro version. Waiting on the next version to come out to do somethings. It isn’t the only tool I use, though for front end development it is really great.

I use PG + Espresso (for css and FTP) and they don’t fight. :sunglasses: