Pinegrow Community Support Forum

I'm really feeling this opinon on frameworks

this summarizes my current take on the subject…

https://hackernoon.com/a-case-against-css-frameworks-bea9a6997f8e

other thoughts?

Yes and no. I do feel like frameworks are opinionated and sometimes force you to change up your original design idea. However, they also allow you to put something together much more rapidly, with more polish in a given amount of time. If you have a small shop that needs to put out one-pagers at a high rate to make ends meet, then frameworks can be your best friend.
I think it is really important to pick a framework that you are comfortable with and really get to know it. That blunts some of the negative points. When you start landing the $3k jobs the framework can get tossed (as long as you weren’t using it as a crutch).
Just my opinion

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so like any tool, a craftsman needs to know it’s limitations… don’t try to use a screwdriver as a hammer, for example.

the issue i have is “strapping” myself into limitations that cause me to do extra work i could have easily avoided by just using the right tool from the start (i.e. CSS grid vs BS+js).

i understand if someone has already invested into a framework (or js) and are comfortable working within those limits, but what i’m learning is that plain CSS3 and HTML5 offer up everything i need to make a fully functional website.

that said, the only “client” expectations have to meet, are my own… i can only imagine the “retail” end of what most developers are having to deal with.

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Yeah, exactly. I also feel like the newer iterations of CSS and HTML are a lot more powerful/easy to use - diminishing my zeal for using plugins somewhat. It is almost the same with the latest JavaScript leading me to be less reliant/wanting to use jQuery.

… well, somewhat agree, however, it takes way too long (but it’s organized) for browsers to implement what’s deemed necessary.

CSS Grid is the new kid on the block for sure and has yet to take hold, but very promising indeed!

Soon we’ll all be wearing brain-caps and thinking web design and watching it happen before our eyes.

pardon my ignorance, but if i wanted to build my own component library to use in PG…

does a PG plugin feature add controls we can see in the visual editor and/or properties tab?

does the plugin use js to make changes to the library component based on which options are chosen in the tab’s plugins?

(also just noticed a hack to get the cursor to appear in this editor window… you have to click somewhere over there in the preview window ====>>>>, then come back to this one).

Hmmm…Not sure I fully understand the question, but I’ll take a shot at answering what I think you are asking.
So there are several ways to add resources to PG.

One is to create a library of HTML snippets. Basically, any HTML component you create can be saved to a library and loaded in another project. These types of libraries don’t have associated actions or properties.

A second way is to use smart components. These components have other resources like JS or CSS associated with them that are imported when you bring them into the project. These are a little more powerful and you can do some neat things to make them more easily editable. However, you can’t define custom properties.

The third way is to write a new framework using JS. This can allow you to define new snippets/components and add in actions and properties that can be changed through the visual editor. This is what I’m putting together right now for the UIkit framework. I’ve written some tutorials on making your own plugin. They are a bit dense, but maybe one or two people find them useful! :slight_smile:

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that’s helpful, and is in-line with what i was assuming.

i need to study up more these smart components in PG as i feel that’s where my own work will end up (if i ever intend to re-use any of it), because it will need CSS to go along with it in order to make it worth having in the library… otherwise, i can just as easily cut-n-paste the html and re-style it.

the added step of making a plugin for any of that, is probably overkill unless it’s good enough to publish like these other frameworks. i don’t see that in my case.

i can see learning enough about CSS variables so that making a change to the options is rather straight-forward.

do CSS variables show up in PG visual editor? I’m going to have to look into that. —EDIT: yes, they do… under the :root, i can easily access and change --variables

Hi,

Think that blog post is utterly nonsense! It all depends on how you use a framework and how much time you want to invest in studying the documentation so you really know what you are doing.

We have had those Ideas in the past with Photoshop and it has cost twice as much time (maybe even more!) as HTML RAPID PROTOTYPING https://medium.com/@andreas.johansson.dev/do-you-find-yourself-designing-the-same-screen-over-and-over-html-prototyping-may-help-f87d45787e11

I do use Sketch, Affinity Designer and Illustrator in combination with Bootstrap for HTML RAPID PROTOTYPING. It saves ages of useless spend time with graphical editors and forces you to think in “The Real World”. Because how do you implement your Sketch, Affinity Designer and Illustrator prototypes when they are ready?.. Exactly that’s the problem.

So the main structure I make with Bootstrap and some small details with the help of a graphic editor.

Regards,

David

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My opinion?

Whatever gets the invoice paid is what I use.

I don’t care if the wrench is made by Craftsman, Snap-On or Matco. If it will turn the bolt, I’ll use it.

Clients know virtually nothing about HTML, CSS, JS, or frameworks, nor do they care. What they want is for their websites to generate traffic, and that traffic to convert into sales. That’s it.

That’s the business I’m in. I build websites because they make my client’s money, and that in turn makes me money. HOW the websites do this “behind the scenes” is of little importance to me. I started my company with my partner ten years ago using what was probably the worst online website builder ever conceived - GoDaddy’s Website Tonight. Neither of us knew a thing about coding. But we knew about business. The sites were all template-based, non-responsive, and the builder itself was a nightmare to use. But it got us off the ground. We got a few dozen clients and were making enough money to start to invest time in learning more about how to build sites.

Soon we bought a program called Website Realizer, which also built static sites, but was light-years better than the crap that GoDaddy had. It allowed you access to the code, and slowly but surely, I learned CSS, and then HTML, and even a little bit of javascript. And we started building better looking sites, but the real key was learning about SEO, and gettin our client’s sites to make them money.

Then mobile phones became all the rage, and responsive design was the new kid on the block, and I made a big mistake by ignoring it for too long, and we lost a lot of business as a result, so then I had to start all over again, learning new programs (Pinegrow and Bootstrap Studio) and how to build responsive sites. And I got better with CSS and HTML, and really started to understand the nitty-gritty of search engine optimization. Because you can build the most beautiful website in the world, but if all it is is an online business card, it’s not going to do a thing to make your client money.

I use Bootstrap because it’s a tool that lets me do my job. I’m familiar with all the helper classes, and I can build sites quickly with it. The fact that there is a lot of extraneous CSS that slows the loading of the site down by .5 seconds is virtually irrelevant. 99% of my clients have broadband or LTE, so as long as their sites outrank their competitors and get them business, they don’t care about the mechanics involved, and frankly, neither do it. My only concern is that the sites work, that they’re fast, and easy to use, and they turn visitors into customers.

Frameworks are just a means to an end.

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