Web Design on a budget

This is what it looks like , when your running old hardware…
and you run some tools to help you .you know speed things up.


I just downloaded and ran Etre Check…by EtreSoft

have a look.

So! I have made some colourful additions to their fantastic diagnostic tools results.
and apparently , for the BARGAIN price of $22
they will print me out all sorts of graphics and give in depth explanations of how to solve them.

let’s take a look…

  1. Make a back up…again…soon, like now!
    2.Buy a battery… a new one. stop looking at second hand ones you miser…
    3.SIP off? what weird software are you running. turn It on you HEATHEN! (er no! its off for a reason)
  2. Kernal panics. Well yes, don’t we all… I know, hands off! firewall…sucks.
  3. OH NO! ditch the battery buying.
    what do you mean? I was just on Ebay… but you said
    no no forget it… your machine is obsolete…ditch it buy a new Mac…

can you draw me a graph of this as I buy a battery, throw it away, buy a Mac oh and WHERE do I pay the $22? as I really really want to see all this advice in a visual representation…


UPDATE. IVE JUST updated this to add the
heading, for those that didnt get it.
Sorry for the Confusion

I might have an old Macbook kicking around somewhere that I’m using as a doorstop. Pretty sure it’s “obsolete.”

Hee hee…it might just be more current that this one. This is my newest machine!
its 2009 and it still give me shivers of pleasure to use!

As does my old PoweBookG4. but sometimes that just gives me shivers… the internal speakers and charger have just packed in. curses. trying various resets on it.

BUT! I’m in the middle of resurrecting some old laptops atm. One for mate who will be taking it away today (I hope) NICE MACHINE! if you like Celerons…and…the…lag.

BUT the beauty of Web dev is YOU ONLY NEED A TEXT EDITOR!

Yes, Pinegrow is fab BUT… I cant run the newer versions on MY Beloved Snow Leopard OS.
Pinegrow is the only reason I upgraded my OS!
2.951 is the last version supported on that - boo hoo! I was mortified, as it didn’t say so in the release notes :frowning:

no pinegrow 3, 4 or 5 for that. (3 never really…sort of…happened much! it whizzed straight to 4)

Now? Multi monitor support!
Guess what? Yep ,back in the Geekoriium, rearranging EVERYTHING and recycling old kit and screens JUST TO TRY it out! it has all lead to this multi Screen goodness.

Including 2 linux laptops now. One running Ubuntu 16.04 is SL@W as! Thats the One with Pinegorw on it now. it REALLY lags and pinegrow just crashes if I try to watch a tutorial and use Pinegrow on multi monitor.
And that has a dual core!

So I might try it on Lubuntu later today, we shall see. most likely this evening. and older OS on an older laptop, but less resource intensive so runs better.with crap graphics.

And I have found a new windows machine that someone left with me after it got hacked ie, they got scammed by one of those your computer is infected, this is Microsoft, please call us to PAY us to fix it

Yep! he did.
nearly £700 later… and a few visits to the bank to cancel things after he informed me and I was
…WHAT!? you did WHAT?

he was so mortified he just left it here after I rinsed it. he didnt trust it.
So I may try Pinegrow on …a…windows…machine spits again, Pinegrow being the only reason to do that evil.

SO! who has old hardware here?

Who is STILL developing on old kit?
Despite the fact that you CANT view some of your handy work on newer browsers *but if on a LAN then your newer machines can do that for you)

SO, given the minimal resources who is still getting by on old kit?
what OS are you running? (yep, e even windows…)

What workarounds do you have to employ? Say if you are Using preprocessors for SASS , LESS etc,
how do you carry on, against the odds…because!

Yes, just because! its stilll you machine and you can still make it do it!

Oh yeah, and feel free do drop off that old MacBook on your way to the shops in the morning…

…what ocean?

Not sure what this has to do with Web Design.

Those type of applications are only created to take your money. They actually do not do anything other than maybe change some common settings known to appear to speed up the computer. All of which you can do yourself without said tools.

Relate them similarly to click bait or phishing scam emails.

It has to do with Attempting web design on older hardware as described.
And a tongue in cheek look at the approach that others view approach with.

That is pretty…succinct really.
That is what it has to de with web design?

If not relevant to yourself, then feel free to ignore.
The tools are crap and were used to illustrate the (again, tongue in cheek) standards compliant view of my my web dev set up.

Humour was required for this, as well as a genuine query about who (not everyone is developing in the wealthy European Theatre) is developing in old kit.

I will next time post a

Minimum system requirements: Sense of Humour

On a semi humorous post, so you can skip it :slight_smile:

1 Like

Your talking about your hardware. Has nothing to do with the subject of the thread. You should update the topic title to include the hardware focus. I get what you are saying in the thread but it really has nothing to do with web design in any way. The hardware used to run an application for the purpose of in this case web design, is not web design.

The forum is public. If you don’t like the responses you get from things you post I have no response to that. Attacking people and responding with insults isn’t something I have interest in.

Just saying that the thread title has nothing to do with the discussion you are having. The software you are screen capturing is more than likely spyware \ malware and should not be used.

There was no insult .
If you cant understand the principle that
HARDWARE…limits software, what more can I add to explain it to you?

My Software is Limited by my OS (and choice thereof)

This is all limited by a budget.

The Main productive purpose of my computer SHOULD be for web design.

I cannot upgrade the Mac -NORMALLY.
I can therefore NOT upgrade to newer Browsers,
IE , on my PowerPC Mac I have just update it to the last browser it can run.
this is TenFourFox - Doesn’t support grid
and likewise on windows (Xp)
Firefox 52.9.0 -doesnt support grid.

this CANNOT render grid display etc.
so while I can write CODE on it, I cannot render it.
it ALSO cannot run ANY Pinegrow version , so I have to use other software.

But if they are connected to a LAN with ONE newer machine, then THAT can run a browser to view the files (with grid) correctly.
So, if running a web design shop or charity , on a budget, you could do this in order to carry on, with various old hardware running Web Design packages and running local web servers, or connecting to one, for ONE machine to view correctly.
Thereby carrying on web design on a budget :slight_smile:

This is just ONE Example and, therefore, if this thread Is NOT relevant to you,
Im not insulting you, but if its NOT relevant to you
WHY Did you feel the need to reply and go on about Spyware that YOU wouldn’t install etc etc? You mentioned nothing about the topic.
Although I do get your point about dodgy software, ie MacKeepers, sweepers and such crud.

Now THAT is not relevant to the thread.
NOTHING you said is relevant to web developing on a budget.

If your limited by finances, you CANT afford NEW hardware,
NEW software, but BOTH evolve, HOW do you OTHER PEOPLE.
manage if you want to keep on Web Design… on … a budget.
And then I started the ball rolling.

Sorry Wrong.
Hardware DOES have a an influence on Web Design in Many ways.

that was My main OS …until Pinegrow 3 came out.
I could no longer run It! -I was forced to update my OS JUST to run Pinegrow (for web design)

Then I could upgrade normally. Now I CAN’T

I had a world of pain, just in order to do THAT.
I had to upgrade the OS , (much of which was Legacy, ie , written for PowerPC but run on Snow Leopard in Legacy mode, Via Rosetta Stone - no longer possible on the next OS, all that software, would be GONE)

I am on a ridiculously low budget by western standards, and cannot afford new hardware and am using as much freely available software as possible , for WEB DESIGN as I am ON a BUDGET and cannot buy a new machine, in order to get the latest OS’ and update. I am now 3 Newer OS’ away from the last one I am OFFICIALLY allowed to run by Apples Artificial HARDWARE constraints!

Just so that I can continue WEB DESIGN…on this HARDWARE. .

My Mac Operating system is now HACKED.
using an Installer from


as I am not able to to install the latest NORMALLY due to Apple designating my machine obsolete - hence using the crap spyware that also uses this label to prove a point in question.

My HARDWARE limited me to El Capitan. -due to APPLES - 7 Year Obsolete rule! which is crap as I CAN install later OS’ -(using the above hacked OS Installers )and continue web design.
On a budget…

BUT using the Hacked installer, I have and am still running

High Sierra
and its now on Mojave - which I haven’t done yet.

So if I wasn’t doing this, this means, no security updates, NO updated Browsers safari comes with the OS - cant upgrade it etc etc etc.

This is all just to run Pinegrow and Safari 12 …and Slack…(which does the same crap and blocks me from connecting via older OS’s and Browsers _ I posted about that on the slack community.)

This stuff is Software…

I could go on, but I wanted OTHER people to go on with RELEVANT content to the topic. so we can share ideas.

This has started with, but is not limited to, Apple OS, and hardware and software.

I also run Linux Sporadically. Again, I have Ubuntu - dual core machine - Pinegrow runs like treacle on that and crashes.
I also have Lubuntu. Older hardware, single core, simpler GUI, seems to fly! wow. Will get Pinegrow on that (as its a budget machine) and have to work out the how to make a launcher that …works.

I posted about that here:

And been hunting down OLDER BUT still updateable browsers for windows XP - again, the installer is broken, so I worked out a fix for that, see here

Lunascape 6 Web browser…ever heard of it?
I Know I hadn’t.
But…fixing up a BUDGET WEB DESIGN machine on a seriously outdated machine forced me to hunt it down. -and create a fix for its installer.

So that stuff is kind of more the Software side of it.
I was going to link them together and collect the stuff here on
the on a budget/old software/hardware topic.

So yes , this forum is public, Im fully aware fo that ,I wanted Public members to post! im a Regular member who helps as many as I can on here.

You might want to re read what you posted above and explain just what THAT has to do with the topic title.

Like you say

I hope that now, maybe you do. if the topic is not relevant to you then walk on by.
I post mostly in the beginners sections, as those things can be relevant to me.
I rarely post on Wordpress or advanced things as they are beyond my skillset, I leave that stuff to people who find it RELEVANT.

So, the topic title stays, you may want to remove your irrelevant post about click bait and Phishing as that is totally off topic, and adds nothing constructive to the topic title.

if you DO have anything relevant, ie software workarounds, using a network with some other devices to view/develop on, fire away or how to work around stuff , fire away! :). Is there any older software or hardware that YOU have that you can STILL update, or modify or hack in order to carry on web development - on a budget! ?

Until then, I will wait to see if anyone ELSE has any relevant input on this subject and we can both go about our respective days.

If you don’t like my hopefully humorous ways of posting, that’s Ok I get that.
Your as free to ignore my stuff on a public forum as you are to write, reply, create posts etc. I find some good stuff in your posts and sometimes reply.

I also find quite a bit I don’t understand/are beyond my current skillset/Aren’t relevant - so I don’t post replies to them.

N.B just so you know, if your not an Apple User,
Etre Check is used by the Senior Apple Forum members and tech support to assist others.


So, again, maybe check the relevance of that out before you label something your not familiar with as click bait fishing scam stuff.

Here you go, here is a pretty recent bit of feedback on another well known (Public) forum -replying to some other similar safety questions About EtreCheck.
but that too got derailed, then locked down.

Its ok for stuff to not be relevant and let it pass by I do it all the time on here with the advanced stuff. But there are loads of angles on this, ie how NGO’s and NPO’s do it, funky software.
My initial post was about the hardware limiting the software. And then throw the floor open to ideas.

All mine is classed as obsolete so is worthless to a web developer but to me its my ONLY choice - as I’m on a budget so am employing a pile of hacks and workarounds.

It was meant to be phrased in a humorous way since, if your this far down the food chain, then its often only the humour that keeps you going.


SO WHO is web designing on a budget? what constraints do you face, or/have found workarounds to carry on successfully?


Come on Guys, I cant be only one trying to get by with older Operating systems and hardware in order to try and learn and hopefully work with web design /full stack stuff?

Am I?

who else. is trying, without all the latest gadgetry and apps, in an arena of constantly moving goal posts and new technologies?

Oh and by the way,

Microsoft has just dropped support for SKYPE -7.59 this week… SOLVED.
The last half decent Skype…

And I cant even find any search results for this topic on line yet.

if you try logging in, it now prompts for your password and gives you this.


More artificially enforces obsolescence.

but, Of course, there is a work around. :slight_smile:
Well. on a Mac anyway.

Open finder and Right Click the Skype Application.

Show Package Contents

you will see


and then find this bit


And change it from 7.59 to the latest 8.xx version and your in business

that above part is positioned here in the file.

So another Hack, if you are developing on older Kit and have customers/friends to stay in touch with but just can’t /don’t want to upgrade Skype.

Being very honest? Pretty sure you are!

I understand design as a job - that easy. It’ll mean, that every craft requires sharpened tools - literally.

And our tool(s)? Latest Software running on systems allowing them to do so. I’ve neither time nor budget fiddling around. It has be a JustWork™. That’s why I chose a Mac (back in 1995 the first time).

And yes - I do design based on a budget.



1 Like

Using obsolete hardware and operating systems will cost you a lot of money in the short and long term.
You do not need the most top of the line $3k gaming desktop or laptop to do web design but spending $600 to $1000 on a lower mid laptop or desktop will put you ahead. Even a $300 cheaper laptop will allow you to run pinegrow, chrome and Atom at the same time.

I can guarantee you are losing more than that tweaking and hacking of your operating systems getting the current versions of software to work. Not to mention the time lost posting and recording your advances in tweaking windows XP or Mac whatever from the mid to early 2000’s.

I am using a windows based desktop built in 2012 dual bootable with both Windows 7 Pro and Windows 10 Pro or whatever they call it now. I don’t use it much. During the last 7 years I have not ever had to do anything remotely like what you are doing. My hardware is obsolete now but due to the quality I chose when buying the parts I have been able to run ANY and EVERY software I ever wanted to and it is now February 2019. With an additional bonus of having a current operating system including updates.

When windows 7 is retired beginning next year I just have to switch to Windows 10 via a boot setting change and I am good to go.

When looking at cost of budget you have to look at amount of time you are spending and how much using a setup like yours is actually costing you. Can the system keep up to the demand placed on it? How much time do you have to wait for the applications to load, how fast can it run the application and are you waiting for it to catch up before you can continue working? How much time do you have to spend on maintenance and overhead of keeping the systems running and working properly?

If you price your time at $40 an hour which is low for web design but for this example say you spent 10 hours so far on your tweaking and posting about your project. That is $400 down the tubes you could of spent working on billable time to clients.

When selecting hardware you have to look at use case. What are you going to be doing with the computer? Video production, Youtube Streaming, Photo Editing, Animation using Blender…?

Pick the hardware and specs necessary and that will also last more than 2 to 3 years. I am going on 7 years with my current setup not sure it will be feasible for 8 but isn’t a big deal to invest in a new system and will be a business expense so it is also deductible.

There is a lot more when looking at budget than time spent, you also have to look at how productive you are. What have you and will you be able to do with the current computer system you are using. Is it feasible or even practical to use for the intended use case? How reliable will it be? Just because you can load some current software on it will it function properly? How slow does it run? Is it bottle necking your work flow and productivity?

Time to invest in something more recent than over a decade dead operating systems. You can get a good deal on parts at Newegg and Amazon and there are tons of videos on Youtube on how to build your own computer if you do not want to invest in a pre-built off the shelf system, will save you money by upgrading to more powerful components for less.

If you are on a budget Apple products in my opinion are not an option. You can get an entire computer for les than $300 here running windows 10. I don’t think Apple even makes computers in that price range not even their phones are avalable for that.

1 Like

Yep, All valid points!

But currently, this Mac (one of the computers, here, my main one) is actually up to date (amazingly) via the hacked installer, so its actually good to go! - but , only after I put the time in to source and configure it etc. It wasn’t straight forward and like everything in life didnt go to plan.
But currently, this 2009 machine does the business for web design. - at my level and should be good if I got back into coding/compiling etc.
This is a 2009 machine, so now 10 years years old.
Apple has a policy of update for current OS plus the previous 2. so Im no the last but one, so should be good for 6 more years I reckon.

But then you have my processor which is Core 2 duo, so that would limit me for funky media stuff, but If I was doing that it would be an issue.
if I used CURRENT software.

If I use software CONTEMPORARY… with the production dates of this Mac, it would fly :slight_smile:

I fancy some video editing and Music composition stuff, but that is not web design, for which the requirements should be minimal. so I should be ok ,.and If I wish to funk out with that creative media I can use older software - as this isn’t a problem.

It’s only in the realm of web design that the age of stuff seems to be a problem as, it is
BROWSERS, which dictate -what browsers DO! (ie, CSS grid implementation.)

And now, Browsers can dictate that Sorry, we no longer support this OS

so now, if I wish to simply View content…which is ALL a web browser is supposed to do.
I have to update my OS…which, If I cant, I have to buy new hardware, to run it.
Uber WOW>

Mere Browsers now dictate my ecosystem… When did this happen>?
So, I’m on this side of the fence, but I’m pretty sure there are gazillions of regular users on the other side fo the fence that just wish to use browsers to view stuff.

SO this brings home the importance of backwards compatibility etc, older browsers, CSS Grid etc, and as much as I’d like to say nah, stuff 'em! if they cant be bothered to update their FREE browsers, then I cant be bothered to write for their old ones

…I realise that I fall on my own sword here, so it brings it home to me.
If I have to dev like this, then I have to write for everyone who simple consumes like this.

Or buy new hardware and new os and all new apps to run on it.
Which is another hidden expense as like those listed with yourself earlier, just the opposite side of the coin. Will my old stuff STILL run on my new stuff?
well then I have to replace all of that too. SO that is like factoring in your time spent faffing about on my kit, which as a business is a totally valid point.

Which kind of brings me to he point of this post Topic really.
I have already done all this and set it up, so I have already invested the time in all this faffing around and at £40 an hour…I would never have to work again, and could probably buy a yacht and sail around the world indefinitely… which is pretty horrid thought actually, as I get sea sick but I digress.

So the point of this topic was to SHARE this info, with other people and save them the Time!
Then, get input from other users with THIER ideas ,to save me the time :slight_smile:
Until at some point, this Mac is eaten by Goblins. Then I’m doomed.

As for the Windows avenue…yes…quite…rather not.
There is one alongside me, my most current , windows, 7, ultimate, pro, dancing iguanas or something.
This too… is obsolete.

Where does this end?

Then there are the 2 linux laptops to play with.
But, that REALLY does go into the
how much time at 40 an hour have you invested in that…just getting a Pinegrow Desktop launcher to work?

I find Windows aweful.
I cannot read the UI, trying to accomplish anything is like trying to tough type wearing boxing gloves, while an annoying small child keeps asking me random questions, asking me if I really know what I’m doing and sticking pictures before my eyes to catch my attention and ask if this TOTALLY IRRELEVANT thing is what I want to do.

I would rather strangle and bury that annoying child and get on with stuff on a Mac.

Budget requirements taken into consideration… I would still bury that one and maybe pay for its slightly more quirky, older sister, just in order to still do what I want.

…in hindsight, these previous statements, dont sound quite right, but you know what I mean.
I hope.

I just cant hack Windows and how it does stuff. I built PC’s for a living, have spent more time on them than I care to ever think about.

Life is just so much better with a Mac.
I can get things DONE… er…until the browsers go out of date.

And that really is it… the browsers.
it is fine for EVERYTHING ELSE I require.

SO its seems absurd to junk it for this one requirement.
Which if I was a web design business would be the PRIMARY reason to have it in the first place, and as you say, if a business expense… why Thank you Mr Taxman, sign here please.

So as a web design wannabe, hobbyist I think this must remain my current state of play, although If a business I am with you most all the way - with the exception of windows and its God Aweful UI choices.
I simply cant use it. It doenst work for my brain.And a myriad other more, geeky reasons.

I thought of building up a super new PC ,Apple OS Hackingtosh too.

Bt then, unless you buy the exact same parts, you can be in for anther time intensive loss of earnings as you get that all set up and working and, as a large part of my time is spent mobile, I would better be fitted out with a laptop. - which you cant really upgrade.

Each Christmas I get this laptop some upgrades.
This year it lost out due to …life.

But I think a PCMIA style USB3 expansion port add-on and ditching the broken CD/DVD Superdrive* in order to fit another internal SSD may be the way forward.

ANd I should do that soon.

That will give me some more read/write speed and extend its useful life for some time and the extra internal storage, likewise -as I can then install the latest Mac OS Mojave on that too.
That came out a year ago, so that should, in theory enable this to run for another few years,

All this in order to deliver content to a web browser and consume the same.

So, thanks for that well thought out reply @Terry44 I wonder if anyone else is doing what I’m doing too, or if everyone just junks their hardware, buys new and all the updated software to run on the new hardware.
If so, that is not a sea I have ever swum in.

But that does make me wonder/highlight the differences between the hobbyist and the professional approach to the topic, and just what would I be doing if was a well paid PROFESSIONAL web dev and needed to get stuff done asap…

My decisions might well be different.
But if I WAS that Professional web dev guy, then hey, I would probably be a different person anyway…

And all this for something that is still supposed to make sense in the simple Lynx,
Text only web browser…


not to be confused with
Links web browser.

ok, over you all again, People

In the past I was pretty obsessive about having up-to-date technology. I’ve had numerous PCs over the years, usually 3 or 4 at a time because I had an office with employees working on them. Eventually, I closed the office, around 2009 if I recall, and went to work out of my house, at which point I built a real killer desktop for myself, and that’s actually the machine I use now. It’s kinda overdue for a replacement, but I just haven’t had a pressing need. I did update it once, in 2011, with a striped SCSI raid and a pair of 7200 rpm WD black hard drives.

At the time I built it, it was a real powerhouse. Windows 7 with a Core i7 920, which had only been out for a few months. It was the best Intel desktop processor made at the time. 6 gigs of DDR3 was also a lot back in 2009. Now, it’s just tolerable. ATI Radeon graphics card. The thing really flew. It’s served me well for ten years, but it’s definitely due for a replacement. I mean, you can get SSD drives for $100 bucks now.

1 Like

I have no idea at all if this post really fits into here, but I’m sharing it anyway.

Legacy stuff (Browser, OS, Software, Hardware, Attitude - whatever) was part of my 10 years experience in FreewayTalk back in the days I used this app. There were three or four topics I remember worth to share - kinda TOP 4 of the head-scratching ones. Here we go:


“I should set up a shop-system. Unfortunately there is NO budget. The page is for our church-jeweller”

Thank god for slaughtering the golden cow!


“I cannot upgrade from Snow Leopard because I still use Freehand”

Thanks world creating the best software on planet!


“I don’t want to upgrade to the latest version - I simply do not need all this responsive stuff”

Thanks egoism - we should all do the MeFirst approach.


Kind of an open letter to SP (the developers of FreewayPro):

Dear SP - please immediately stop this nonsense of responsive design and turn back to static widths as we were used to. My clients never had a problem with zooming in and out - therefor it’s not an user unfriendly!

It’s always those application-devs with their fancy ideas.

The basics of your post is confusing. You complain that browsers dictate the OS to drive. Is this really new? And is it really the Browser (app)? Or is it new properties extending the front-end-dev possibilities every single day? To me it sounds more kinda an attitude thing - a thing I can’t influence anyway. It’s your brew.



1 Like

Software always dictates the hardware/operating system.

Yep, good post there @Thomas :slight_smile:

Good selection of pints :slight_smile:

They made me smile, and I was with you all the way until your final summary about questioning whether this is new, (browsers dictating etc) and it be an attitude thing.

Unfortunately on this post so far, as is coming for internet discussions/debates/forums, it has followed the usual form of

OP - ask question

Replies -*why are you doing it that way? You should be doing …xxxx *
which sometimes, is totally valid! if OP has totally missed the mark ,badly phrased his request or just doesn’t know what he was talking about anyway.

However, with this topic, it is about being limited by BUDGET.
And I probably should have better worded it, by clarifying that I am NOT a professional web developer (and at this rate, not sure If I will ever be/should be/ want to be ) and have minuscule finances.

@Terry44 's later replies were really spot on -if I had been a professional, paid, self/employed web dev I realised so that made me consider the wording of my initial post.
maybe Web Design on a budget for Hobbyists would have been better put, but it now has the title it does and I dont wish to change it, as it would make some of the other posts then seem like dumb answers and people would read them and say

Hey! what’s with this guys answer? The OP Clearly states he’s a hobbyist…duh!

So its better, that I appear dumb rather than someone who took the time to reply.
…unless they manage to appear dumb, regardless :slight_smile:
So far, that hasn’t happened.

SO I was listing the limitations , not my grumbling, about the state of play of getting things done In a constantly evolving environment - one where I am still managing to stay above water!
Yay! and compete with the big modern sharks circling my environment.

…with a current productivity rate of approximately … zero… sigh
Most of my time is spent, following tutorials, trying to do stuff, then life (this thing with the limited budget) Trounces me and wipes out everything else until I return have forgotten all syntax, things have evolved _hello_CSS_GRID… and I’m back to square 2.
Which I guess is better than square 1.

This is why I like helping @randyrie, he might be bouncing of the walls, trying to do things, with enthusiasm more so than knowledge but

HE GETS THINGS DONE…and is creating stuff.
And each time I help him, I usually learn something more myself.
I might understand more stuff, but he his far more productive than I!

Ie, yesterday, due to housing stuff due to to ongoing corruption by a local authority which I have had to endure for 24 years
YES, TWENTY FOUR, I had to speak to a solicitor.

She charges £150 an hour to look at stuff which will take some hours, before she passes it to a Barrister to look at stuff -for £250 an hour… to see IF … they can do something.

SO I am looking at 500 to 750 for them to LOOK at stuff.
And they may then get back to me and say no or yes…for £150 plus £250 an hour, ongoing…
Plus other stuff I have going on.

… I have been living on £20 a week for the past 9 months. This has now slightly improved.
so If I eat nothing , pay no bills, scrap my vehicles, turn off my electricity, use friends houses for electricity, washing and the internet to carry on doing this-
I would be looking at 37 weeks merely existing on the planet to pay for …FOUR hours…of two peoples time, do DECIDE …if they can do something.
There is other stuff too.

I wont go on about it, but when they go on about people in Africa living on $1 a day
Well, welcome to the UK in the 21st century, if your Ex Military with some Issues…

So, you may now understand why I like survival and Bushcraft stuff so much.
I’m not actually that far away from living that way sometimes.

Therefor I’m trying to improve my lot on here.

So I mostly hide from the world of horrors and try to better myself and help other people (sources of text , on a screen) via this medium and this forum and watch instructional videos as the horrors pile up at my door.
So, enough of this diversion, needless to say, I wont be buying any new, shiny hardware anytime soon, and back to the budgetary constrained points.

I have posted umpteen of this hacks / fixes etc on this forum over however long, so thought I would be better collecting it into one place and sharing the info with others of a like situation, and share ideas.

Unfortunately I haven’t found anyone yet.
But I do appreciate all the responses so far, food for thought, making me wonder more why I bother to try to do this more so than to find some similarly positioned users to mutually support each other though.

So thanks for the input so far! :slight_smile:
I have no wish to make things harder for myself (or maybe deep down I do! -it is also a challenge after all and to STILL be able to carry on, defiantly, and up to date, in a Dev world which eschews old stuff in favour of modern and current as the be all and end all YET at the same time, we always have to dev for backwards compatibility seems…well, Crud really.)

But… as the topic states… web design…on a BUDGET.
It is the Budget that constrains me.
I didnt wish to make a big point really about this as , it is somewhat humiliating.
There are various factors involved in why This is so, this is also somewhat humiliating and frustrating.

so there we have it.
Hardware, software, OS, all constrained by a budget, as this post mentions, not my attitude (well probably also some of that too :slight_smile: like is said about challenges _ but that is more one of human nature in general and never giving up :slight_smile: This is why we dont still live in the mud of swamps… and tidal lagoons, eating worms with pointy sticks.)

But Carry on ! let’s keep this ball rolling :slight_smile:

Well Ian @schpengle

in my very first post, I already mentioned, that I don’t see much room for hobbyists in the world of Design. This didn’t make me necessarily the much-loved buddy today (and especially in the past). It eaven might be the reason for misunderstanding this topics gist.

I’m not earning my living from design either. My discipline is perhaps called “sideline”? I’m even never took an apprentice or study or the like within the “designers world”. So very generally spoken: Coming from the print-industry, I’m an ambitious design hobbyist. All I know is self-taught - and all is based on attitude and empathy towards one thought: “Design Is A Job!”

So yes - I am taking money for my craft. I am probably too cheap (better said: My discounts are too high).

But perhaps the biggest thing is: We’re talking here on Pinegrow Community. Reason being that we all use Pinegrow. And the app (or the reason we met us) is way too ambitious for hobbyists. I am pretty sure, that there are tons of other forums and talks better suited for your needs.

So sorry mate for not being much of help.



Cheers @Thomas :slight_smile:

Not too sure about Pinegrow being too ambitious for us, but
it certainly has taught me one thing lately.

I really, quite often, Confuse my frustration with its interface and doing something, with lack of knowledge/misunderstanding of how something actually works/ or the the CORRECT way to do something -irrespective of whether I am doing it in Pinegrow or any other app.

That is, I misunderstood the technological Web Dev principles of what I was trying to achieve, and how that is accomplished in code - BEFORE I even tried to do it in Pinegrow.

…but Pinegrow UI will show me something is NOT RIGHT with my approach.
other apps tend not to do this.

SO Pinegrow is a GREAT Tool for this.
If it is driving me nuts trying to get something done…then if I can actually FIND correct documentation or A video on that topic, I quite often go

Oh!@ is THAT how it works OUTSIDE of Pinegrow!.. oh,… ok I got that wrong

then…find I have to learn about Bootstrap some more… or CSS or some other such thing.
It is for this reason that I still haven’t created a Wordpress them yet.
I DONT undersand how Wordpress works.

This is why I listed that Tania Rascia, Wordpress theme creating stuff on here, that is GREAT for explaining.

Pinegrow tutorials explain how to create a them in monkey see, monkey do style, but it doesn’t explain how Wordpress works!
And, Why should it? - difference between professionals and hobbyists becomes hi lighted here
its UP TO YOURSELF… to learn how Pinegrow works!
its UP TO YOURSELF… to learn how Wordpress works! -and all its underlying technologies.
Ah! ok… damn I have to put in some more time and effort.

SO for this reason I Dont think Pinegrow is WAY to ambitious…
…but yep! it IS ambitious … if you have NO understanding of the basics of web design.

I think it’s a fantastic learning tool…once you’ve started.
if you’re new…it might very well blow your mind…to pieces.

But all input appreciated, cheers :slight_smile:

Anyway, but to Budget web dev.
I know people on here use Pinegrow all over the world,

Europe, Asia, East Europe (hi Devs!) the Middle East (likewise) Africa, Pakistan and India , everywhere!

…surely I cant be the only one having to do this… am I

If I really am, well… that makes me wonder about the best approach and if I am, maybe I should just set up a blog and stop littering this forum with what I thought would be useful Information for people in a similar situation

Ok, well Ive gone or a walk in sun and a read and a think and
It would appear that there is nothing quite as good as a public forum for instilling a well earned sense of isolationism :slight_smile:

And, I think, the source of my topic my very well boil down to me being
Challenge driven
more than
Money Driven.

And I seek to help others out of …well an innate desire to do the right thing more than for financial reward.

And assume that everyone else does the same.

Alas… it has taken me approximately half a century to figure out this does not appear to be so unless I actually DO find someone in this thread that takes the same approach to all this stuff, I must conclude that do appear to be alone.

But, there are thousands signed up to this forum, probably and only a tiny amount are actually active on here,
ie, they have a life… in the real world…and no time for this sort of stuff - unless they break Pinegrow/Pinegrow breaks their project, then they are all over here like a rash, demanding fixes…then submerge once more into the Primeval Gloop of the real world.

And maybe my approach impacts on my previously stated quality of both web stuff and life in General.
Ok, all a bit deep and slightly off topic,

IF there IS anyone… getting by on old ANYTHING … hard/baked/boiiled/soft ware… for web design, let me know…

…it could go quiet now…

Well, my stuff is old-ish. Still using Adobe CS6 (I refuse to switch to their rent-a-software model) and my computer is ten years old, but I’m not happy about it.

I do try to help people here, probably more than I should.

The truth is, there’s a reason tech support isn’t free. I’ve spent hours helping out people in this forum. Hours I could have been doing paying jobs for my clients. But I do get a sense of satisfaction out of helping those in need, so I’m willing to forgo spending every hour of my life making money. Nevertheless, helping people doesn’t pay the bills, and I’m a business owner first.