I actually don’t need (or even want) Bootstrap, but I do want Tailwind.
Maybe what makes more sense is that people buy an edition with the framework of their choice.
And to be fair, this version is essentially crippled if I understand it correctly, you cannot use any colors not in their palette, etc… no customizing Tailwind in that sense makes it not production ready from the perspective of actual Tailwind users. Instead, I see it as an investment in moving away from being completely Bootstrap centric.
I actually don’t need (or even want) Bootstrap, but I do want Tailwind.
If you want to understand the basics of Tailwind I suggest you go through the screencasts on their site:
If you’re happy with Bootstrap and you don’t have some of the issues that Tailwind addresses or build custom components, I don’t see why you might change to it.
I’m very curious if Pinegrow’s functionality to create Tailwind/Pinegrow components might actually make Tailwind UI not as useful.
I would say the key value proposition of the UI product is actually the design and details that have gone into building out the components. I certainly wouldn’t buy UI if and until I had a project where it could actually save me the time at 10x the money spent.
I was thinking the same thing.
imho, the question is not really posed in those terms. Historically, Bootstrap and Foundation have always been present by default in any version of Pinegrow. One could almost call them a “core feature”.
The presence of these two frameworks, combined with their great popularity has certainly been a significant argument for web designers who have integrated Pinegrow into their workflow until now.
Tailwind is the first framework to be offered as an option. To my knowledge, there are no plans to add many more frameworks, at least in the near future.
But anything can happen if smart & talented third-party developers decide to use our API to integrate the framework of their choice. > https://pinegrow.com/docs/developers/
I originally bought and continue to support Pinegrow based on the somewhat undefinable concept of community, training and their ability to speak to my level of understanding.
I don’t use all it’s features, but I trust that it can do cutting edge stuff if only I had the time to fully utilise it all.
Even though I have no current time or ability to use Tailwind, I marvel at the creator’s ability to provide training videos that somehow make me instantly smarter.
Will I send money their way to keep them going even if I may never use any of their platform?
Who is willing to push me over the edge with even the slightest bit of justification?
It is their sort of skill and dedication that initially drew me to support Pinegrow and for the next four years with several add-ons that I will never likely use.
It’s much like Patreon but with usage rights.
I have the money, but no time, need or actual desire to become a marketable asset. I have minimal skills in most areas, but prefer to figure it all out on my own rather than hire someone else for my many personal projects.
I have NO problem with your approach here of offering the one-time upgrade for existing customers. I’m sure this took a TON of work and you need to find a way to be profitable. This is more than fair IMHO.
As a product management/product marketing professional I have been down this road of GTM and product offerings. I understand your justification, but I disagree with you.
No new customers care at all about your history and what is core product vs an addon. They will just feel like they are second class citizens and being charged more just because their framework isn’t the one you want (you make it pretty clear you almost have a distain for tailwind). If that’s your GTM, you’ll get a few of us who are here more for the html and not for the CSS and alienate people new to the product who use Tailwind.
It is your business, you can decide what you want to do, but I would suggest you look at how to grow rather than what fits with the way things have always been done.
If we would launch Pinegrow v1.0 today we would offer all frameworks, including Bootstrap, as optional add-ons. It’s a clean solutions. But we are at 5.97 with six years of history, and that needs to be taken into account when making changes to how the product is structured and sold. Usually it is better to change things gradually. With 5.97 we already made a big change in the Buy section by presenting the core PG PRO + selectable add-ons. Before we just had different editions and that would get exponetionally more complex with every new PG flavor/add-on.
Re TailwindCSS - it is a very opinionated framework. Most people either love it or dislike it strongly, not much middle ground
If you wanted to say “disdain,” no, no, not at all. I just don’t feel the need to use it because at the moment I already have my marks with other solutions that give me what I need.
And… since I’m not a young person anymore (grin grin), I sometimes feel lazy for a while to launch myself on novelties, no matter how nice and efficient they are, particularly when used with Pinegrow
i have a slightly different question… when i purchased PRO the license agreement was that i could use and upgrade for 1 year, and after that i could still use the product but would no longer be able to upgrade.
these new terms say different
so, does this mean if buy another year of PG PRO that at the end of that year, i will no longer be able to use the software loaded onto my computer?
are you turning PG into a subscription service?
@droidgoo These license terms have always been present in our subscription offers (vs. our one time payment offers which have not changed since you bought your license).
It is easy to add commentary from the sidelines. I love the product and appreciate all that you have done to make your transition smooth (see my #1, it’s number one for a reason). Thank you for coming out with this plugin at all! I realize change is hard and there are a million other factors that have nothing to do with Go-To-Market that factor in. The subscription model makes the back office accounting of any change I mentioned a project in and of itself for accounting!
I’ll stop my muttering with a HUGE thank you for taking this on! From what I can see thus far this is Fantastic!!
I’ll be shoving it in my friends faces and demoing at meetups (albeit virtual now LOL) as soon as I can add the critical “theme” config changes to the tailwind.config.js file (not being able to define colors and fonts will drive me nuts!) Until then, I’ll be playing with it to learn more about the integration with Pinegrow. Thanks for your great work!
thanks for clarifying that,
can i assume then that i will be able to use this tailwind product with my existing license in perpetuity if i buy the $40 add on now while my license is still active?
Thanks @mikes Supporting Tailwind customization is the next step. The current thinking is that we could parse each individual project’s CSS file and extract what TW classes are available and then adjust the UI accordingly.
@droidgoo You will indeed be able to use Pinegrow & Tailwind with the latest version you had access to during your free updates period. You just won’t benefit from Pinegrow evolutions and this framework in particular.
With our current offer, the Tailwind upgrade will not increase the price of your existing license renewals if you decide to renew someday.
note: It’s a bit late at my current geographical location, I’m not sure I’m clear on this one
It’s like if you don’t upgrade your Windows 98 to something that supports current graphics cards. You can still collect viruses, but you can’t run Blender.
The moral of the story is to just keep updating your PG license each year so that you have the latest and greatest access to the currently supported Tailwind features.
From the Pinegrow “Buy” page - you have three options…
“I understand that I can use Pinegrow for as long as my subscription is active. I will be automatically charged every year and can cancel the subscription at any time. If cancelled, I won’t be able to use Pinegrow anymore.”
“I understand that I can use Pinegrow for as long as my subscription is active. I will be automatically charged every month and can cancel the subscription at any time. If cancelled, I won’t be able to use Pinegrow anymore.”
One Time Payment
“I understand that Interactions are not included and that I get 1 year of free updates. After that time is up I can use my current version of Pinegrow forever. I can renew my license to continue receiving updates.”
That is a good question. Giving the software for a low monthly subscription and then charge for everything after that is what seems to be the trend. It sort of nauseates me to think of this coming. I have already paid for two extensions and looking at the overall costs, makes me feel that Pinegrow’s own components may be losing its value because it is missing all components which would be essential for web development. The owner/developer of Pinegrow should explain what is the future of their software. Look at VS Code, its a world class example of good platform. Very soon, VS Code may take over!
I have no interest in Tailwind. I already expressed that in the thread where Matjaz made public what the team is working on.
What I’m interested in though is reduction of Pinegrow’s installation size. So would it be possible to make frameworks optional to install?
I do not use Foundation, I do not use Bootstrap, I do not use Tailwind. Also, I do not have a grudge or hate against these frameworks. I did buy the UIkit plugin because that is what I use, or Artisan HTML+CSS+JS+React. In fact the UIkit plugin was the main reason/attraction for me to buy Pinegrow Pro with Interactions and WP license.
Call me a minimalist.
Also, for existing licensees of Pinegrow, how is the Pinegrow team going to convince them to buy without a trial?
Existing users can try Tailwind Visual Editor by running PG in trial mode with Support -> Purchase and activate -> Tailwind Visual Editor -> Start trial.
The bulk of PG installation size comes from NWJS. Every new version grows in size and unfortunately we can’t do anything about that. The PG code including add-ons is tiny compared to that.
@mikes working with custom TailwindCSS themes is now supported: